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hydroacetylene
2d ago
Ok fair, I forgot about Paraguay.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
2d ago
My guess would be Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, or China.
Checking the list, Romania is richer than all of those, and appears to still be a net exporter of migrant farm workers. But googling suggests that Romania is importing sub-Saharan African migrants to do the jobs Romanians will only do for western European wages.
Argentina has significant numbers of migrant farm workers from poorer South American countries.
I think that leaves China as the most likely answer - it is richer than Brazil or Mexico now.
veqq
2d ago
Libya stabilized quite a few years ago (with 2 governments) although this week Haftar intervened in Sudan. Now, it's not great (HDI etc. lower than under Gaddafi) but
Capital_Room
rather dementor-like
2d ago
It’s like a tour of duty. There’s lots of industries that are hyper seasonal and / or are intensive for short amounts of time.
Oil workers are like that, for example. Fisherman, cowboys, that’s just off the top of my head.
We've got plenty of this sort of seasonal work up here in Alaska — and not just the oil workers and the crab boats, but also a lot of tourist-adjacent jobs, ranging from seasonal airport baggage handlers to RV park attendants.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
2d ago
"Israel is trying to pull us into a war" is fine.
It's now just accepted conventional wisdom that Israel wants to drag the United States into a likely globally-destabilizing conflict on the basis of their insane, racial-supremacist Abrahamic cult-myths.
is not "conventional wisdom," it's an ideological argument. Which he wrapped with "We're totally done with bullshit platitudes about this being about oil or Spreading Democracy. Everybody knows now. We're done with the precepts. At this point there's nothing left to say, all of the predictions and analysis of the so-called Anti-Semitic Right is proven correct. It's just a matter of whose side you're on at this point."
That's the kind of "we" consensus-building and rallying we have always modded.
WhateverHappenedToNorman
2d ago
Argentina
Not us, we just had a retarded de facto open borders policy.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Not defending the work ethic of ex cons, but that is the usual source of native labor for shitty low-skilled jobs because they will be arrested if they don’t hold down a job and decent ones aren’t available to them. Georgia’s program to replace illegals with de-facto corvée labour from the states parole and probation population didn’t go well.
Also college kids are by and large uninterested in doing much higher-paying, more exciting seasonal physical labor as it actually exists- there’s not a ton of guys working on their engineering degrees on fishing boats and oil rigs.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
2d ago
The whole point of the Iraq war from the PoV of the "realist" faction in the Bush Jr White House (I would guess particularly Cheyney and Rumsfeld) was to set up a US client state on Iran's border, ideally one that (unlike Saudi Arabia) was not funding Al-Quaeda. The project failed because the only Iraqi faction that was willing to collaborate with the American invaders was Badr/SCIRI, which was also the pro-Iranian faction.
There was a long period (roughly from 9-11 to the defeat of ISIS by Russian and Iranian forces in 2017) where a rapprochement between the US and Iran would have been possible, based on the shared enemy in Salafi Jihadism (including Al-Quaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS), if both sides had been run by actual foreign policy realists.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
My guess would be Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, or China. None of them wealthy, all of them with near-third-world-poor hinterlands that make the only difference here the ‘foreign’ part. Working in say, Chihuahua or Baja California Dei Sur is a much better deal than in Chiapas even if they’re technically the same country. Likewise why import workers from Laos when guizhao is right there.
I’ve heard that even Lebanon doesn’t have native Lebanese working the fields, Syrian refugees do it for Pennies. Even Iran seems to, de facto, make use of much poorer Afghanis and Tajiks for stuff like that.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2d ago
This is a bad mod flag: SS in this case was pointing out the assumed consensus in the post he was replying to, which stated as conventional wisdom that Israel is trying to drag the USA into a war.
FistfullOfCrows
2d ago
Not just painkillers, I'm not exactly sure if it was morphine or heroin or what they use these days, but it was liquid/blood line administered and I haven't felt anything else like it. The normal painkillers you get otc in pill form don't compare either.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
That's a great point actually
I'm concerned that all these jobs are significantly more productive than farm labour, and thus command higher wages.
I guess we can price floor farm work wages but I have a feeling Americans will freak the fuck out when strawberries get more expensive.
Why do you care about what he cares about? So what if somebody has a chat about poor body hygiene of somebody else - what is it to you? Do you often go around snooping on conversations you are not interested in, so you can deliver some petty sermons about the fact, that you do not like their conversations and that they should talk about something else?
MaximumCuddles
The world-spirit texting on the toilet
2d ago
I suspect his list of “countries worth defending” is paper thin in both time and space, as if political morality only started 70 years ago.
Liberal internationalists are almost all like this. It’s terminal recency bias.
It’s like that meme about liberals lecturing Christians about Jesus; “No, I don’t believe in your backwards ideas, but if I say the right things you might do what I want.”
Substitute The Nation for Jesus and you’ve got it pegged; in reality they don’t think any nation is really worth defending on its own terms, they never have, and they never will. It’s total anathema to them. When pressed, they don’t even think The Nation exists or should exist, or they believe in it in only the vaguest, wishy washy terms.
quiet_NaN
2d ago
I think the heat dissipation will be a similar problem with a depth of 50m. You will need active cooling either way, and the facility can be trivially disabled by attacking either the surface structures or the power lines.
The reason why you put your weapons program in the underground is not that you will be impervious from surface attacks. It is so that surface attacks will not set you back very much.
Fans and pumps for cooling, or electricity are not a bottleneck for the Iranian weapons program. Their bottlenecks are definitely gas centrifuges and enriched uranium, plus possibly engineers to design their bombs and raw uranium.
Also, if the Iran manages to put Israel in a situation where their best option is to be the first country in 80 years to use a nuclear weapon in anger, that itself would be a big win on their part. In retrospect, the obvious place for a nuclear facility would be deep under Tehran, so that when someone nukes you, they will also murder a few millions Muslims. It is certainly where Hamas would have placed such a facility.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2d ago
Individual experiences must vary a lot here, I took painkillers and found it wasn't much better than being drunk.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
From what I remember, some of the fluffers were absolute smoke shows. The one I remember was way hotter than Aella.
https://imgur.com/a/QMsEBrK (meme not a fluffer)
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
2d ago
"What I believe" is not "Just accepted conventional wisdom."
Who is "we"?
You can argue these points. You cannot just assert them in an effort to claim rhetorical territory.
You get plenty of slack for your Joo-posting, but the rules against consensus building and rallying for a cause still apply.
Stefferi
Chief Suomiposter
2d ago
Yes, individually these and the below examples are edgy sacred values trolling, but the thing is the pattern.
MaximumCuddles
The world-spirit texting on the toilet
2d ago
That’s not true, if you’ve lived in or near a beach town or ski town there’s plenty of serving staff who only work in a restaurant a portion of the year, every year.
They just work like crazy to make enough money to support themselves on a part time job or unemployed for the remainder for the year.
It’s like a tour of duty. There’s lots of industries that are hyper seasonal and / or are intensive for short amounts of time.
Oil workers are like that, for example. Fisherman, cowboys, that’s just off the top of my head.
Some people really love the freedom of working extremely hard for part of the year and consequently fucking off for the rest of the year.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
2d ago
Interesting question - what is the richest country (except city-states like Singapore with no agriculture) that doesn't make large-scale use of itinerant foreign farm workers? My initial guess was Japan, but they finally cracked and brought in an agricultural guest worker visa in 2019. South Korea and Taiwan also use guest workers on a large scale. Poland have scaled back their farm worker scheme because they can get Ukrainian refugees to do the work, but that isn't getting Poles to do it.
Terracotta
2d ago
Freud is practically synonymous with BS these days, but repetition compulsion is deeply real. My prior assumption for anyone who had a horribly traumatic childhood and is now cruising on a "but I made a sudden dramatic escape and now things are so much better" trajectory with no extensive therapy/ monastic meditation step in between, is that either they will shortly get restless and blow everything up themselves, or that they will shortly find they're experiencing similar levels of abuse in their new context, having unconsciously gravitated toward familiar dynamics of exploitation.
Aella's dad beat her up, denigrated and aggressively dominated her; by some online accounts somebody raped her as a child. Then she escaped and, surprise! found a profession where smart men could aggressively dominate and rape her, but supposedly on her terms; then in time she found that once again, the men denigrating her were doing so less and less on her terms. If she flees again, I really worry about the next set of partners she winds up with, and I'd worry about escalating drug use. I worry about Lindsay Lohan's new dude and ostensibly new situation.
Memory-wipe technology for selected childhood baggage really would be an amazing development, such a shame we'll get the totalitarian Matrix brainwash version instead.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
2d ago
It is noteworthy that the well-run red states (Texas and Florida) don't have mandatory E-verify for private sector employers, and the badly-run red states do.
But then the GOPe never tried to conceal that they were using illegals to undermine worker protections. The main thing Bush Jr did to enforce the immigration laws was sending fake OHSA inspectors into workplaces and deporting any illegal who tried to report a safety violation.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
In an ideal world we'd fly people in from the Nigeria, India, etc and fly them back with a fat stack of cash from US wages, but the US won't do that. Non-forced labour from the first world is not a viable replacement for migrant farmworkers.
Canada has many immigration issues, but the temporary foreign worker program for agriculture is actually a huge success. Absolutely dialled work groups from Jamaica/Guatemala/etc come in for various picking seasons, make a fat stack of cash, and then leave to a different country elsewhere for another harvest season.
There is actual competition between farmers for the best/highest skil work groups because the boys are absolutely dialled at their various fruit/vegetable harvesting skills.
The huge issue with farm work is that it isn't year round, which is a massive issue for western workers.
Haven't the countries of Mercosur implemented open borders de jure, not merely de facto?
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