domain:lesswrong.com
anti_dan
11hr ago
Invisible fences exist and are common. They also are easy for the dog to understand. They are clearly defined boundaries with geographic markers at all times. You train the dog on them at what we think is mild discomfort levels of pain so they stay in the yard and dont get hit by a dump truck. But also they get to be in the freaking yard! Which toddlers (who are smarter than said dogs) dont get to do unsupervised.
anti_dan
11hr ago
Shock collars are used to keep your dog from running into the street by underground fencing your yard.
anti_dan
11hr ago
A large part of the disconnect you are seeing is that clearly this dog is not properly trained. Its fully grown. If it knew its job was to lay there he wouldn't have a shock mechanism to keep it there. Perhaps from time to time he would have to remind the dog to get back to its position. Dogs that are well trained are very obedient.
Instead he chose a different path with physical pain that still appears to be ineffective due to his own negligent training.
pigeonburger
11hr ago
That's my recollection as well, that everyone was playing along including myself. It never felt like my parents were betraying my trust, but more like this was one thing that was an exception and it was okay to playfully lie about. And I can see how that can be a prosocial thing to teach kids. Of course, there might also be parents that go too far, insist too much on the reality of it all without enough winking, and actually cross the line into betraying their children' trust.
anti_dan
11hr ago
I dont know this specific story, but dogs, as part of their nature, love running. If their running was naturally transformed into human worth they dont give a crap.
Dogs dont naturally love being shocked.
anti_dan
11hr ago
Given the amount of time he has had this dog, and the delay in his response, the dog has no real understanding that it has a job or occupation, unlike properly trained occupational dogs, which, it is important to note, we fail out most potential candidates for even to this day. That means, most dogs are not capable of being occupational dogs, unless the occupation is something like ratting or foxhunting for the appropriate breeds. Sitting still for a several hour podcast is not an occupation any dog breed has been bred for.
There is no real defense of this video I saw other than dogs having zero moral valence or some bizarre long running joke on this program that needs to be explained.
OliveTapenade
11hr ago
...okay, fair, that made me laugh.
Again, I don't think it's quite the same - the motte-and-bailey is a tactical move you make in an individual argument, whereas this is more like concept creep - but it is close enough that you got me.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
11hr ago
My point is that "it's okay to assassinate people, but they have to be evil" is a belief that's held by approximately nobody.
I disagree, but am intrigued. Huge amounts of entertainment hinge on this norm. lots of history hinges on this norm. Radicals openly advertise based on this norm.
All the people who celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk would never say that.
What would they say, in your view?
BoneDrained
12hr ago
In Chicago, it goes beyond "minor physical violence"
https://abc7chicago.com/post/kim-foxx-lightfoot-mutual-combatants-combat/11100664/
anti_dan
12hr ago
I got a chuckle out of this. On one hand, is a cell phone enough to win a criminal case? No. But when it is stacked up with the rest of the evidence, often yes. I recently got sent one from my friends at the state police where 2 guys, wearing the same disguises, robbed 3 places in about 4 hours. Both with cell phones in the pocket placing them at every site. Then they got caught with the car a few days later (which was stolen). Good work fellas.
anti_dan
12hr ago
That is question begging of the real sort. A state medical board could say it has authority to regulate radio programs, and under your definition, that would make radio broadcasts medical treatments.
self_made_human
amaratvaṃ prāpnuhi, athavā yatamāno mṛtyum āpnuhi
12hr ago
Cold coffee? Soup?
you're very unlikely to get an answer like "ethnic spoils" even from the most race realist types
even if true, what does asking this open ended question to "people" demonstrate?
describing LA and NYC as "ethnic spoils systems" is accurate whether or not the above is a true statement
the first time I encountered this idea and these specific examples was from my elderly communist black professor; perhaps she qualifies as "even from the most race realist types"
This sounds like a problem that can be solved through the approach of "don't live in such places"
right, which is what I claimed was the effect in my first comment
it's also a problem which can be solved through the approach of "deport illegals and other foreigners before they take over neighborhoods and fundamentally change it" bringing us back to the subject issue
From "Children Believe Every Lie" by Eneasz Brodski:
I was raised Jehovah’s Witness. As part of this, I was taught as soon as I could understand the concepts that Santa wasn’t real. Neither was the tooth fairy, or the Easter bunny. Jehovah’s Witnesses have a near-autistic dedication to being truthful. While many religions informally refer to themselves as “the Faith,” (“she is strong in the Faith” etc) Jehovah’s Witnesses refer to themselves as “the Truth.” As part of this, they believe it’s wrong to lie to children about made-up characters.
This made me special. I knew things my classmates didn’t know. I knew they were being lied to. I knew my parents cared enough about me to not lie to me. The message was very clear: we won’t even lie to you about Santa, despite how popular that lie is. You can also trust us when we tell you the Trinity is just as fake as Santa is. And the secondary message: These people will lie to their own children for no other reason than because it’s fun. You can’t trust them one bit.
When I came to realize all supernaturalism is a lie, and the only way one with intellect and curiosity can believe it is to intentionally blind themselves, I became very angry with everyone who should have known better (or DID know better) and lied to me. Being a Jehovah’s Witness is a life-altering decision. Honestly, any sort of theism should have massive repercussions on how one lives. By lying to me they had ruined my map of the territory so badly that massive amounts of effort had be burned for nothing. And all that trust I had? Burned in the fires of epistemic hell. The sheer betrayal of having been lied to so much but people I trusted so deeply left me angry and seething for nearly two decades.
When I excised that belief from myself I thought that at least I was free now. I would obviously still be wrong or misled about some things in life, but I would never have to again deal with discovering that a bedrock fact about all of reality was literal lies and everything I had been building upon was sand and vapor.
I was of course very wrong.
...
I’ve woken up to how much this happens since that day. It’s everywhere, and I kinda hate it. I almost want to say that parents SHOULD tell their children that Santa is real. That way they learn very quickly in life that everyone will lie to them without hesitation for the most trivial of reasons. They can never trust anyone to accurately represent what they actually think is true, not even the people who claim to love them more than anything else in the world. It would maybe prevent them from reaching their late-30s still believing that leprechauns grant wishes.
But I don’t really think that. I believe that fighting to be as honest as possible will yield good returns if resources are invested into it. I have a vision of a world where acknowledging openly and explicitly that we are acting as if something is true without it actually being true is far more acceptable than just pretending it’s true. Acknowledging that the reality of a situation doesn’t match what we aspire to *shouldn’t* matter, and hopefully we’ll get there someday.
Together we can take the first step, and not say things we know to be false to our children as if they were true. Down with Santa, now and forever.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
12hr ago
8-10. Most parents put considerable effort into the appearance of "Christmas magic". There's an adorable age where they're old enough to question, but afraid of what they might find out. They'll test their parents and gossip among themselves. But my own were afraid that if I knew that they knew, then I might not bother with the presents ritual, so they pretended to believe longer. And once it was explicit, they solemnly accepted the responsibility to not break the kayfabe for their younger cousins.
If it's something you've been told since before you can walk, it takes a decent bit of development to get to the point where you notice the fact that it's completely incongruent with everything you know about the rest of the world. In a way, it's a method of gently teaching children that the only real magic is what we do ourselves.
ABigGuy4U
12hr ago
Is there a word for this process? Or at least something to say when you notice somebody doing it?
It’s like some kind of... some kind of two tiered argument castle thingy.
Jiro
12hr ago
My point is that "it's okay to assassinate people, but they have to be evil" is a belief that's held by approximately nobody. All the people who celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk would never say that.
Brgp12
12hr ago
OP said the dog is a Tibetan Mastiff mix. Might be wrong but I think the name is a misnomer - they're actually Mountain Dogs, or Flock Guardians. They generally have low energy levels, bred to either sit around and watch sheep all day or wander around guarding nomadic herds.
Pulpachair
12hr ago
I would say it is more akin to slapping a child when you’re short-tempered and they are chewing loudly. Even then, you can explain things to the child later. The dog is just going to be confused by the pain and learn nothing except to fear its owner.
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
12hr ago
If we are talking about well-behaved gainfully-employed illegals in blue cities like Chicago (which is where the ICE raids causing the fuss are focused), then nobody is imposing. The illegals are in a place where their landlords, bosses, butchers, bakers etc. as well as a super-majority of the community are perfectly comfortable to have them there. The people who don't want them are the people (almost entirely from outside said blue cities) who voted for Trump.
I am a white American. My neighbors here in Japan like me well enough. I perform community service and pay taxes. I have children here and am well-integrated into the community. If I had come here on a tourist visa 5 years ago and the Japanese immigration services finally caught up to me and deported me, would you find that outrageous and unjust? For consistency's sake, you may respond to me in this thread saying that you would. But if your eyes passed over a headline reading "American man deported from Tokyo over illegal visa violations" would you immediately be shocked and upset by this? Or would it pass beneath your notice as a mundance "dog bites man" story? The outrage over punishing immigration crime really seems like an isolated demand. It's only bad when America does it, for some reason.
07mk
13hr ago
At what ages does one normally outgrow Santa belief in America? I never believed in Santa (I recall being told around the age of 4 or 5 and finding it absurd, especially since our family didn't have a chimney), but also, Korea didn't have as much of a Santa culture as America. I moved to America in 1st grade, and I don't recall my non-believing of Santa ever being something that even came up, so I figured that, by grade school age, kids had outgrown it. But it sounds like that's actually not the case?
Quantumfreakonomics
13hr ago
The specific prohibition is against “hot drinks”. Coffee and tea are brewed hot. Monster (as far as I know) isn’t.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
13hr ago
I am actively working on finding a spouse with whom I can raise a family;
I swear I've thought you were married with kids for years.
Wow, thanks for the scholarship. Amazing!
This seems like it could plausibly be the thing I was missing. Although I don’t think they need to take fingerprints to issue a NTA. Could be wrong about that though, not a domain expert here. If that's the case, and if ICE mentioned it in the documents that are not available through PACER but the judge ignored it, then I no longer think ICE was egregiously in the wrong here. Two ifs though.
Anyway, I'm pretty baffled by this case, it'll be interesting to see how it develops.
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