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magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
6m ago
It's not clear that Harris would have done better had she taken a more pro-Palestinian line. Certainly, a lot of Muslims stayed home (which is still only half as bad from the Dem perspective as actually flipping), but AIUI this wasn't true of non-Muslim SJers, and had she taken such a line she'd have been up against AIPAC and gotten called a baby-beheader.
TheDag
Per Aspera ad Astra
9m ago
Ahh ok clearly I am confused on what orbit means. So you want a stable orbit? Idk I don't think spaceships would ever try to get in a completely stable orbit since they're coming down, no?
ETA: Happy to pay the bet if I'm just wrong here, of course.
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
22m ago
You seem to be under the impression that accusing your interlocutor of being a socialist is some kind of I-win button and super-embarrassing.
I feel you should be aware that outside the 'States - and your interlocutor just said he is - this isn't really all that true. Australia's and the UK's Labour Parties are both former members of Socialist International and still take red - as in, Communist red - as their party colour. Die Linke is a significant party in German politics, and it's literally the East German Communist party with a new name. France's National Assembly is over a quarter declared socialists.
quiet_NaN
26m ago
In case you haven't worked it out by now, some people think of SJ as an existentially-dangerous meme via undermining law and order. The analogy's not perfect - social justice warriors are far better at scheming than the rabid, and believing SJ is not always permanent - but you get the point.
This is the worst analogy I have read on the net all week.
First, we have a rabies vaccine. In the real world, inoculating the healthy (and just-infected) would be our main weapon against super-rabies, rather than gunning down the diseased.
Second, memes are importantly different from viruses. Memes are easily transmitted through time and space. However, they are also unlikely to infect 100% of the people exposed to them. They also do not kill their hosts, generally. While they can dominate virtually unchanged for thousands of years, they tend to last much shorter in periods of rapid technological progress. So a meme becoming dominant is not the end of the world.
Third, killing the carriers is not very effective to combat memes. The carriers of Christianity were regularly murdered in ancient Rome, and yet this did not prevent the spreading. I will grant you that communist memes did very badly in Nazi Germany, so you might say that Nero's failure to root out Christianity was simply a skill issue. Personally, I dislike societies which murder fractions of their population.
Fourth, why would social justice progressivism be a uniquely dangerous meme complex? Western civilization has survived the spread of Christianity, enlightenment, atheism, communism, fascism, liberalism, hippies, punks, enviromentalism and so on. Granted, some of these meme complexes were really bad and killed a lot of people in the name of stopping competing memes or for other reasons.
Personally, while I intensely dislike SJP, I also do not consider it as dangerous a communism was in its time. I also like liberalism a lot. Any society where you just shoot the carriers of a hostile meme is very illiberal. Typically, it will target not only the carriers of one hostile meme complex, but the carriers of all meme complexes perceived hostile. I also think that SJP is already over its zenith. In 2010, it was the hot new thing for youth looking to rebel against the establishment. Eventually, the kind of older women who would have reported young people who received visits from opposed-gender people to their landlords in the 1950s will be the main enforcers of SJ norms, and that will paint these norms as 'cringe'.
TL;DR: The battlefield to defeat SJP is the marketplace of ideas.
JTarrou
29m ago
And you interpreted that to mean if an international entertainment company ever produced a show aimed at boys, then what I said was falsified?
You guys are slaying that straw.
WhateverHappenedToNorman
29m ago
I agree with your general point, but Milo's problem in particular was that he alienated his base with his comments about homosexuality age-gap
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
29m ago
Rude.
I'm not about to check whether the numerical market situation of Disney products in 90s Germany lines up with my memory of that time and place. You can have the win if you like. Here, if it please you: Disney is purely and entirely a girls' thing. Have a nice day.
FistfullOfCrows
37m ago
Why does everything in the UK seem to revolve around underage girls, if they aren't being trafficked to a crown prince by foreign intel agents, they are being gang groomed or assaulted by immigrants, or leading crusades, now they are wielding skyrim tier bladed weapons. Will the UK soon have a squad of teenage girls in uniforms battling in the streets for their country's freedoms?
Corvos
41m ago
Nobody’s being obtuse. The claim
Disney was always for chicks, some people fell for a marketing ploy when they decided to chickify a couple boys IPs.
is IMO ahistorical and incorrect, and you haven’t made any attempt to back it up. Several people including me have said so and provided receipts, and you’ve spammed snark at them.
georgioz
48m ago
I do think that AI-generated propaganda helps the right more than the left in the current environment, if only because conservatives live in more of an inherently audio-visual culture compared to liberals.
Hard disagree. Left uses audio-visual tools to push their agenda all the time. This photo of a drowned toddler did more for triggering mass immigration acceptance back in 2015 than any other rational argument at the time. Sam Alinsky's Rules for Radicals explicitly calls for tactics like this - such as using small provoaction in order to garner "disproportionate" attention that can be then captured and used for propaganda. If anything, right is way behind this tactics mostly because it is leftists who are now in power and who are to large degree prone to this sort of asymmetrical warfare. Although even that is questionable as long as the left can keep pretense of them being the underdogs.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
50m ago
And they would never obtain power because they cooperate in the face of defection.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
50m ago
He has a point though. Not sure what went on in America during that time, but when I grew up in the 90s, there were numerous disney products that were pretty obviously marketed towards boys. No idea what happened in the 2000s, though.
Corvos
54m ago
There’s a tendency to simplify choices - ‘unfortunately we couldn’t keep this once-great thing neutral and now we have to oppose it’ becomes ‘it never had any redeeming qualities, it’s getting what it always deserved and if you think otherwise you’re not really one of us’.
JTarrou
56m ago
That's a lot of words for "I don't like the way poor people look and find them less sympathetic than cartoons".
Which is......a take.
yestrusocialist
1hr ago
The Dixie Chicks were not cancelled in any meaningful sense. What happened to them was:
- Their record label continued to sell their albums, and to fund the production of more albums
- Their concert tour continued as scheduled. Extra security was provided in response to potential threats by disgruntled randos.
- Some radio stations stopped playing their songs, others did not. At the time radio stations had very little concentrated ownership or control, apart from ClearChannel (which did not stop playing their songs).
- The mainstream media was happy to give them multiple opportunities to air their views, including letting them appear naked on the cover of entertainment weekly
- Some of their fellow artists supported them, others expressed disagreement and criticism
- Some of their customers got angry and stopped purchasing their CDs
- George Bush said they are and should be free to speak their mind
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_comments_on_George_W._Bush
Pretty much any cancelled conservative would have been extremely happy to receive this treatment. From what I can tell, George Bush is right - this is basically how freedom of expression should work. Say what you want but don't complain about a moderate decrease in sales.
For comparison, Milo was:
- Banned from all major social media (which didn't really exist at the time of the Dixie Chicks controversy)
- Had his books cancelled
- His speaking appearances were cancelled by institutional gatekeepers, with threats by disgruntled randos occasionally cited as a pretext
- Mainstream media did not give him high profile appearances where he could express his views or defend himself
Kanye suffered all this, in addition to having his bank accounts closed.
SkoomaDentist
1hr ago
A trivial example is "You should learn to repair your car" while ignoring that we don't live in the 90s anymore and most new cars cannot be repaired without special tools and software (sometimes even by third party professionals).
SkoomaDentist
1hr ago
"Work harder" isn't bad advice so to speak but it's not that useful.
This gets into the core problem with much advice: It is rarely actionable and usually of the form "you should be like this" instead of "you should do this specific thing that you both know how to do and are capable of currently doing".
A classic example is "eat less to lose weight" which isn't actionable for most people (they'll just get hungry and fail to eat less) as opposed to for example "log every meal and snack you eat to make it easier to avoid pointless eating and try to eat these sorts of foods that keep you satiated longer".
SkoomaDentist
1hr ago
Okay, so, you've probably heard of rabies. It's an incurable disease (at the very least it used to be, and it still is once symptoms appear) spread by biting that makes people bite others and be violent and semi-mindless in general.
Ahem. Ravies doesn't do that.
It can make people confused or aggressive but even confused or aggressive humans don't go around biting others (at least any more than people who are confused or aggressive because of dementia or drugs do). Human to human spread of rabies basically doesn't happen.
ControlsFreak
2hr ago
I mean, sure? Got any suggestions for how to do that? I don't think, "Do everything you can to make sure patients never get prices," is particularly helpful for that problem.
SkoomaDentist
2hr ago
That's Motorola Mobility (subsidiary of Lenovo, smartphones and stuff) or Motorola Solutions (safety and security products). Neither have anything to do with IC manufacturing.
That's also pretty much the classic Palestine-Israel conflict at play.
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