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HAPPENING NOW: ISRAEL LAUNCHES MASSIVE ATTACK AGAINST IRANESE NUCLEAR FACILITIES—AIR RAID SIRENS HEARD ALL ACROSS ISRAEL—MASSIVE AIR ACTIVITY OVER IRAQ-SYRIA BORDER—MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS CONFIRMED IN TEHRAN INCLUDING COLLAPSED BUILDING—IRANIAN FIGHTER JETS SEEN TAKING OFF FROM AIRSTRIPS NEAR TEHRAN—BALLISTIC MISSILE LAUNCHES REPORTED IN IRAN—REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS AT US BASES IN IRAQ—MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS HEARD NEAR IRAN’S NATANZ NUCLEAR FACILITY—VIDEO FOOTAGE SHOWING NATANZ NUCLEAR FACILITY BURNING—UNCONFIRMED REPORTS THAT THE CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE IRANIAN MILITARY HAS BEEN KILLED IN A TARGETED STRIKE
—Inb4 source
—Inb4 “low effort post ban” Additional facts and my thoughts will be added as the situation develops
Our greatest ally is now putting American lives in danger by publishing that America was complicit in the attack
China is the largest trading partner to most countries in the middle east. They managed to do this and have large numbers of Chinese people working in the middle east by not wasting trillions enraging the middle east by bombing them. Israel supported jihadists in Syria, Europe got culturally enriched and the same terror groups attacked Europe.
The best thing the US could do to strengthen its position in the middle east would be to pull out all troops.
And Iran is not at war with China, so China can do this.
If Iran wants Israel to stop, they can negotiate peace.
No one is foolish enough these days to negotiate peace with the west. Every country knows it is just a pretext for the west to wait until it has a better position to destroy you.
Meh. Iran choose to have economy comparable in size to Denmark themselves. If they had done the sensible thing - chase growth they would be on par or even surpass Turkey by now. The west has no need to destroy them, their stupidity is enough.
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Iran and Russia have pretensions to negotiate with the West as if they were equals, but they don’t have the cards. Even as a lifelong western stan, I’m still amazed at how easily the highly reputed armies of anti-western powers crumble. The quick and absolute dismantling of Saddam’s "top 5" army was one thing, against a superpower-backed coalition. But this is just a few western planes and drones taking out a big chunk of a regional power’s air defense, missile launches, leadership and nuclear sites in one go. It's another complete wipeout for a woke, decadent army versus the 'high asabiyah' hard men.
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Only if you maintain your insubordinate and anti-American behaviors. Japan, for instance, has prospered quite well after negotiating for peace with America.
Someone named "Hadad" telling an American whose ancestors came here in the late 1600s to stop being insubordinate in order to prosper. It's like a perfect encapsulation of what is wrong with US politics. Fuentes massively vindicated by all this.
Is your real name remzem? How do you know "Hadad" actually represents his ethnicity? Maybe it does, maybe not, but it's a thin pretext to start declaiming the purity of your bloodline. Stop making things personal.
He made it personal first?
Maybe you should stop making it personal. Have a vendetta since I think your forum's rules are garbage and are strangling this place into irrelevancy. Never liked you on the old forum either before you made mod since all the regulars quit.
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Iran has no reason to hate China. The US and Israel has been warmongering in the region for decades and created completely unnecessary conflicts. The US could very will have had amicable relations with Iran. Instead they had warmongering and aggressive policies that have made the relation hard to fix.
Iran negotiated a deal with the US that the US then broke. The US invaded Iraq twice and Afghanistan. The US has a long history of bombing the middle east, assassinating people and destroying countries. The Iranians have every reason to be skeptical.
Iran's hatred of the US is because we backed the Shah, and because of Iran's ongoing support for a global Islamic revolution (sometimes people forget that religious fanatics really do believe in their religion). Israel is an aggravating factor, but Iran, a Persian Shia nation, cares about Palestinian Arabs and Israel's other Sunni Arab neighbors getting fucked only inasmuch as it is leverage against the Great Satan, the West.
If the US dropped all support for Israel today, Iran would still hate us and would still be funding Islamic terrorism around the world. They don't just want us to stop "warmongering," they want us completely out of the Middle East so they can turn it into an Islamic state (under Iranian control). China, if they were left as sole hegemon in the region, would have to start contending with that, instead of being able to act indifferent towards Islam like they are right now.
To be fair at this point every US president for 25 years has openly had calls for regime change in Iran. It's not like they're holding some grudge from their grandfather, every living Iranian knows part of the American government wouldn't mind if they were dead.
Well, to also be fair, every Ayatollah since the Shah was overthrown has called for death to America, and we know that the Iranian government, by and large, is on board with this. The grudge certainly runs both ways, but Obama did make some half-assed attempts at normalization and look what that got us.
I kind of feel about Iran the same way I feel about Israel and Palestine - there is a lot of wrongdoing and doublespeak on both sides, but there is one side that really could have peace if they wanted it, but they clearly do not actually want it.
To be even more fair, there's been like two ayatollahs.
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On the flip side they fought against the Jihadists in Syria and helped Syria defend itself. We should be thankful for that. When Iraq was invaded they helped Iraqis fight for their independence. They have not sponsored the type of muslims that attack European Christmas markets. Those types of jihadists are backed by Israel.
Who even cares what Iran thinks of the west? They are in their part of the world and are willing to trade with the other parts of the world. The US and Israel has smashed other countries and supported jihadism. The US and Israel are against stable and reasonable states and wants to turn the middle east into a giant Afghanistan.
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Not to mention the whole coup/Shah thing on behalf of oil interests.
On behalf of oil interests? Oh, you mean the part where Western nations invested in Iran to develop its oil infrastructure under a rev sharing deal that was considered mutually beneficial at the time only to then be seized by future socialists?
The who/what/why doesn't really matter at this point though.
The point is the USA backed a regime change, and the end result 70 years later is Iran is no longer controlled by that regime, and HATES the counties involved in establishing that regime.
So what do we think will happen if we try it again?
The US and Israel no longer want to do nation building and building friendly regimes. They are going for destruction. The new model is turning countries into Libya or Syria. Wrecked countries controlled by various competing militias. A disaster for the country, an eradication of the local Christians and a refugee crisis or Europe.
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Yes - that. We can argue about the ethics of a country defending its citizens' property rights by couping foreign governments till the cows come home, but if we are considering the practical wisdom of doing so then "The 1953 Iranian coup had long-term negative consequences for the West which vastly outweigh the potential impact of an oil company being nationalised" is simply true and needs to be taken into account. In the world of international politics, a mistake is worse than a crime.
The West developed many nations in the way it did Iran. At some point you need to make it clear that stealing the West's investment in your nation has consequences.
The counterfactual world where we just let Iran get away with it and then emboldened socialists the world over to run on a platform of stealing Western investment is worse.
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Iran is also not at war with the US, so the US could do that too, if it wanted.
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