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Notes -
A Look Into Indian Gender Relations (And Marriage)
I have this habit of staying in touch with exes and former romantic interests. There are some acrimonious exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking, it leads to interesting places. Today was one of those days.
About a year ago, I found myself in that peculiar liminal space between the end of a serious relationship and receiving news that I'd successfully matched into psychiatry. I was consumed by severe anxiety during this period, convinced that my odds of making it were poor. With nothing to lose, I decided to cast a line into the dating pool and see what the ecosystem had to offer. Some of the fish, you could immediately understand why previous anglers had practiced catch-and-release. A small minority appeared mentally stable but lacked long-term compatibility potential.
Getting into psych felt like divine intervention. I still had several months to kill before starting, and dating apps became more of a time-killing mechanism than a serious commitment strategy. During this brief interregnum, I dated a model. Or arguably the second one, depending on whether you count a fashion designer who occasionally modeled her own products.
The stereotypes about models turn out to be empirically accurate. They constitute one of the most neurotic, high-strung demographics I've encountered. This particular specimen was gorgeous, came from a wealthy family, and within a few dates was proposing marriage.
She was also, unfortunately, somewhat unhinged. She carried an OCD diagnosis that manifested in an inability to use public restrooms (at least in India), complete inability to look at or touch bare feet, and dietary restrictions that bordered on eating disorder territory. In theory, I could have managed all of that. What proved insurmountable was the fact that she wasn't very bright.
I sometimes wonder whether men who marry purely for aesthetics fully grasp that children inherit genetic material from both parents. I would never marry someone intellectually deficient, simply because no offspring of mine deserves the curse of inheriting my appearance and her cognitive abilities. This woman had drawn the genetic short straw; the rest of her family consisted of high-achieving intellectuals.
Her problems stemmed primarily from extreme naivety. When we first met, she'd recently been dumped by a boyfriend she'd dated for several years. He was the archetypal fuckboy: a weaselly individual who owned and managed a popular nightclub and showed few compunctions about leveraging this for personal advantage. She explained that he'd attended a bachelor party in Thailand (the implications are identical to what Western readers would assume), and had sworn extensively that he'd maintained perfect fidelity. Then an anonymous contact had direct-messaged her photographic evidence of him engaging with local sex workers, plus clear documentation of him bringing one back to his hotel.
She'd been devastated and sought comfort from her mother, who remained remarkably unconcerned: "What's the big deal? He didn't cheat on you, did he? All men are like that, they need to satisfy their needs elsewhere." The boyfriend proved unrepentant, initially denying the allegations, then immediately ending the relationship when confronted with evidence.
I remember one eyebrow threatening orbital escape velocity when she related this story, with the other joining it somewhere near my hairline when she declared that I seemed like a good man and we should get married. I attempted polite deflection; I maintain certain ethical standards about removing undergarments under false pretenses. I told her she seemed nice, was extraordinarily attractive, and would definitely find someone willing to commit (Someone Who Isn't Me). The usual diplomatic pablum.
To avoid unfair character assassination, she possessed redeeming qualities. She was relatively down-to-earth by hot model standards, not particularly promiscuous (she even usually only slept with the men who had already lied about marrying her, which in a way is practically Victorian by modern standards), and didn't exhibit excessive enthusiasm for depleting her father's or future husband's finances. She was family-oriented, good with children, etc.
I saw her a few more times, sighed when she revealed she'd visited her ex, departed for Scotland, and experienced severe secondhand embarrassment when she had a pregnancy scare and decided I was the appropriate person to consult. I provided general advice mostly out of sympathy. Life presents unique challenges when you lack intelligence and constantly get manipulated by men seeking short-term pleasure when you want long-term commitment. Nevertheless, she continued calling at inconvenient hours requesting that I return and marry her, which became increasingly awkward after I acquired a girlfriend here. I changed phones and neglected to provide my new number.
We maintained Instagram connections, and she suddenly contacted me after an extended silence requesting a call. I was bored and agreed.
She'd been dating someone seriously for most of the year, with genuine intent to commit. He owned a small business in the same industry as her father (who was significantly more successful). She described him as kind and thoughtful ("he's almost as good at putting me at ease as you are!") and they'd discussed marriage.
I'd previously noted that she was relatively undemanding. This man was, if not impoverished, financially struggling. He lived with his parents and younger brother in a cramped house in an undesirable neighborhood, where said brother slept on the sofa due to insufficient bedrooms. Worse, his family maintained extremely conservative values. She'd once visited wearing a perfectly reasonable sundress, and his mother had become hysterical and demanded she cover herself during future visits.
When their relationship became serious, she'd issued a quasi-ultimatum. He needed to move out and secure independent housing before she'd cohabitate. He'd objected, claiming financial impossibility and, more importantly, cultural violations. In his tradition, men remained with parents unless circumstances provided no alternative.
(She genuinely impressed me by stating that she ought to tell him that in her culture, it was expected that the bride and groom get their own place. I almost clapped like a seal.)
I can't fault the financial reasoning, but surprisingly, she revealed that her father supported the marriage idea and offered financial assistance for property purchase or rental. She'd specifically mentioned openness to relocating within the same apartment complex or neighborhood to maintain family proximity. This would represent a massive downgrade in living standards for her, given her upscale current neighborhood.
Her father had actually offered to transfer control of his business empire to this man. The boyfriend couldn't claim financial hardship; his prospective father-in-law would fund the relocation and provide the keys to the kingdom. The man remained unhappy. His pride was wounded by the concept, and he claimed his family would judge him for accepting.
(He also had the audacity to demand substantial donations in the form of thousands of dollars worth of gold jewelry for his extended relatives.)
As I, self_made_human, absorbed this information, I was shaking my head vigorously. Some people genuinely don't recognize good fortune. As an honest wage slave in a foreign land, I could only marvel at this man’s ability to fumble the largest economic windfall of his life for the sake of an ideology built out of sticks, mud, and maternal approval. If some elderly gentleman developed such fondness for me that he offered both his daughter's hand and most of his wealth, I'd definitely give it serious consideration. I'd be tempted even now, except for my complete lack of interest in operating a large clothing business. This guy already ran a struggling version of the same thing. What did he have to lose?
I expressed sympathy and truthfully stated that I considered him an idiot with either no backbone or one bent in the wrong direction. The latter might be attributed to a stick lodged in his posterior. Speaking from experience, I explained that I had previously stood up to my parents when I was dead set on marrying one of my exes, even when all the world had protested that she wasn't good for me (it's neither here nor there that the World, or at least my parents, were right about that). She wanted me to communicate this to him directly via video call. Her plan involved presenting me as a UK-based psychiatrist she'd consulted for advice (technically accurate, I suppose). She offered substantial payment for this service. Then she requested assistance with her cervix, because I had, for reasons that escape me now, mentioned hymenoplasty.
"Do men really care if their partner is a virgin?"
"Some do? But it's 2025, you can work around it. But didn't you tell me you'd been together for a year? Don't tell me you didn't sleep with him."
"I did."
"Then how is he going to object to you not being a virgin on your wedding night? You can claim that's his fault!"
"Nooooo... I was thinking about if it doesn't work out, what about the next guy?"
I desperately pleaded with her not to approach my own parents (gynecologists) seeking that service. That isn't quite the kind of referral they need from me. A Muslim female gynecologist? Experts in that field, please look up one of those. She remained persistent, so I attempted to discourage her with graphic details about how women in historical periods would use bladders filled with chicken blood to simulate the expected gore. I recall conducting basic sex education using conveniently positioned curtains to demonstrate hymen rupture and restoration. Med school has taught me many things, some of them useful.
I eventually managed to escape, but my conversations with this woman are fascinating solely due to the absurd destinations they reach. I declined another round of marriage proposals, citing prior commitments, but mentioned I'd contact her during my next visit. I probably will, because getting laid is likely the minimum compensation I can expect after the sheer confusion and bewilderment she generates.
Models? Not even once, specifically not twice.
I catch myself thinking that if accepting the business was a precondition to marriage, it would feel more like a downside to me, on account of having neither experience nor desire nor, I suspect, much talent in running businesses. But I suppose what Fang Yuan would say is along the lines of "even if you run it into the ground within a year, you've benefitted as long as you don't go into debt".
You know, I was just browsing the RI sub, mourning the fact that I had finished the novel again.. Fang Yuan would have put a baby in her, then refined them both into Gu.
Anyway. Her dad didn't frame it as a precondition, it was a genuine offer. He's getting on in years, and he'd love to have someone take over the business. His son is busy doing something that makes too much money in an MNC abroad to bother, his daughter? She couldn't run a Nestlé distributor during a drought. So the only real options are to sell, or to look for a SIL who can handle things.
I can only stress how hard they're bending over backwards to accommodate this guy. Indian families tend to be very class/wealth conscious, she's marrying down in that sense. Different ethnic group, different religion. This is incredibly rare, and the boyfriend really thinks too highly of himself for his own good but that's his prerogative.
You must consider that the boyfriend is not being pigheadedly stupid and recognizes the offer on the table: and she is really that bad. That even a life of easy living is not worth the trouble of marrying this particular woman.
That is a possibility that I can't rule out with any real certainty, I did just date her casually over a few months. However, I still think that's unlikely. She's not a bad person, from my perspective, she's doing everything she can to help herself, just severely handicapped by not being smart.
He stayed with her for a year, took the idea of marriage seriously, indirectly asked for a dowry. That's not really the behavior of someone who doesn't want her, even if a combination of pride and adherence to protocol means he isn't willing to follow through. I still think that his ego getting in the way is the most parsimonious explanation, he's definitely not reading articles on the heredity of intelligence and taking them seriously.
If you date enough absolutely gorgeous women you will find out two things:
A shocking number of them are obnoxiously perfect (by which I mean they are smart, kind, and functional). It's quite unfair! ...And it puts pressure on the relationship because they know they can have anyone.
For the ones that aren't, well it gets tiring and it happens oddly fast (especially because most of them aren't good in bed). A girlfriend + porn rapidly starts to seem better than the 10/10 girlfriend who is annoying. If you happen to know a bunch of beautiful women closely you'll be shocked at how much some of the complain about not getting laid especially the ones in a serious relationship. The quote "no matter how hot she is, someone out there is sick of dealing with her shit" is prescient.
I imagine this guy is having some number two action.
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'Not very smart' in the sense of unexceptional or in the sense of actually retarded? Like they are two different things.
Noticeably below average, if not actually retarded. The kind of person who is literate, but definitely struggled in school, not that I have her test scores at hand.
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Maybe he has other aspirations?
Tao Zhu also comes to mind on the topic of RI and blowing a cute wife and huge wealth... Also, people can just be dumb without higher meaning in their actions.
My life is better when a random post of mine receives not just one, but two RI related replies. I can die happy.
Everyone has their own values/utility function, but this guy seemed quite serious about wifing her, right till the issue of the move arose. I get the cultural issues and desire to stay close to family, but she was willing to help him find an apartment in the same building! My parents might as well complain of abandonment if I move to the basement (if we had one). The barriers seem insignificant, it's no Five Regional Wall.
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Why though? Just because he's so much better for her than the usual fare she gets around her?
I highly doubt the Gu of Cute but Retarded would be of more use to him than securing the favor of a wealthy righteous clan.
It makes sense to me; he needs someone to marry his daughter so she stops her bad habits(after all, it sounds like it's mostly her getting taken advantage of) and take care of her and someone to take over his successful business. Win-win. It's a scenario that would strike me as plausible but not exactly common- sort of like winning the lottery- in the modern US, let alone India.
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I don't know for sure, but that's a likely reason.
She's late 20s, same age as me. That is slightly long in the tooth by Indian standards. Not the end of the world by any means, but it'll only get harder once she hits her 30s. She was fretting about this during our video call.
It's also bad from the perspective of being a trophy wife, with little to offer except looks and decent familial wealth. Her family are well off, but not ridiculously so. If she was a working professional, she could probably delay till her early 30s before things got really bad.
The arranged marriage market in India is quite brutal. I would flourish in it, because I'm a qualified guy (age is far less of a factor). Her family is quite liberal in mostly turning a blind eye to her romances, but if I had to guess, largely because she seems serious about locking a guy down and it saves them a lot of hassle. Love is a great lubricant, and at least cuts down on dowry demands.
To the modal, conservative leaning potential marriage partner:
She has no end of guys down to fuck. I remember, on one of our dates, she showed me her Bumble matches. So many the counter broke. But how many would want to put a ring on it? Most would be like me, in for a ride but not willing to take the car out of the dealership for good.
To an extent, her anxiety is well founded. She only has a few years before it becomes an uphill struggle, even if it won't be literally impossible to find a good partner. Ed creds and a good job would have sweetened the deal, but she's not there, and she's not a supermodel either.
This guy was:
To a family that has wealth but concerns about the continuity of said wealth, she could do worse. I presume her family would have loved me, but we never got to the stage of introductions. I made it clear I was leaving soon, and it would be a good while before there was a chance I'd be back.
I mean, this is a sad story. You didn't want to marry her for reasons, this guy doesn't want to marry her for reasons. (I do think there's an element of pride there about not wanting to be perceived as the male version of a gold-digger, but whatever).
She's not sleeping around because she's riding the cock carousel, as the crude phrase has it. According to you, she only had a handful of boyfriends and slept with them in the context of 'this is a serious long-term relationship'.
She wants to get married, but can't. This is not the temptress of redpill lore, she has all the perceived advantages in the dating marketplace but can't find a guy who wants to marry her, and it's not because she's looking for unattainable perfection.
An arranged marriage would be the best chance for her: her parents find a decent guy who will be happy enough with a ditzy (but loyal) wife who looks good, has enough knowledge of wealthy social circles to fill the role of running the household and hosting and supporting his career, and he is capable enough to take over the family business and not run it into the ground.
I hope she finds someone soon, this is wasting her life and chances for what sounds like a nice (if dumb) girl. Remind me to say a prayer for her, the traditional one I know is "St Anne, St Anne, find me a man" but looking it up online the other matchmaker saints (for women) are St. Andrew, St. Anthony of Padua, and the Archangel Raphael. I guess St. Nicolas of Myra fits there too with the dowries he arranged.
You're welcome to say a prayer for her, I'm sure she'd be touched if she knew, and I might well tell her if you do.
I do pity the lady. Her situation isn't the best, and she's stuck in the very common trap of being used to romantic relationships and feeling unwilling to settle for a more pragmatic arranged marriage; all while a pit of dread forms in her gut telling her the former isn't working out. She's not a bad person, even if I'm not seeking to marry anyone until, at the very least, I'm done with my current training.
(It's not that arranged marriages are bad, even I don't really think so. But they're usually seen as unromantic, even if, in my experience, the people involved do quickly become very fond of each other. A hot woman used to a great deal of male attention might feel let down by one - and if the guy was a real catch, he likely wouldn't be looking)
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