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Notes -
A Look Into Indian Gender Relations (And Marriage)
I have this habit of staying in touch with exes and former romantic interests. There are some acrimonious exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking, it leads to interesting places. Today was one of those days.
About a year ago, I found myself in that peculiar liminal space between the end of a serious relationship and receiving news that I'd successfully matched into psychiatry. I was consumed by severe anxiety during this period, convinced that my odds of making it were poor. With nothing to lose, I decided to cast a line into the dating pool and see what the ecosystem had to offer. Some of the fish, you could immediately understand why previous anglers had practiced catch-and-release. A small minority appeared mentally stable but lacked long-term compatibility potential.
Getting into psych felt like divine intervention. I still had several months to kill before starting, and dating apps became more of a time-killing mechanism than a serious commitment strategy. During this brief interregnum, I dated a model. Or arguably the second one, depending on whether you count a fashion designer who occasionally modeled her own products.
The stereotypes about models turn out to be empirically accurate. They constitute one of the most neurotic, high-strung demographics I've encountered. This particular specimen was gorgeous, came from a wealthy family, and within a few dates was proposing marriage.
She was also, unfortunately, somewhat unhinged. She carried an OCD diagnosis that manifested in an inability to use public restrooms (at least in India), complete inability to look at or touch bare feet, and dietary restrictions that bordered on eating disorder territory. In theory, I could have managed all of that. What proved insurmountable was the fact that she wasn't very bright.
I sometimes wonder whether men who marry purely for aesthetics fully grasp that children inherit genetic material from both parents. I would never marry someone intellectually deficient, simply because no offspring of mine deserves the curse of inheriting my appearance and her cognitive abilities. This woman had drawn the genetic short straw; the rest of her family consisted of high-achieving intellectuals.
Her problems stemmed primarily from extreme naivety. When we first met, she'd recently been dumped by a boyfriend she'd dated for several years. He was the archetypal fuckboy: a weaselly individual who owned and managed a popular nightclub and showed few compunctions about leveraging this for personal advantage. She explained that he'd attended a bachelor party in Thailand (the implications are identical to what Western readers would assume), and had sworn extensively that he'd maintained perfect fidelity. Then an anonymous contact had direct-messaged her photographic evidence of him engaging with local sex workers, plus clear documentation of him bringing one back to his hotel.
She'd been devastated and sought comfort from her mother, who remained remarkably unconcerned: "What's the big deal? He didn't cheat on you, did he? All men are like that, they need to satisfy their needs elsewhere." The boyfriend proved unrepentant, initially denying the allegations, then immediately ending the relationship when confronted with evidence.
I remember one eyebrow threatening orbital escape velocity when she related this story, with the other joining it somewhere near my hairline when she declared that I seemed like a good man and we should get married. I attempted polite deflection; I maintain certain ethical standards about removing undergarments under false pretenses. I told her she seemed nice, was extraordinarily attractive, and would definitely find someone willing to commit (Someone Who Isn't Me). The usual diplomatic pablum.
To avoid unfair character assassination, she possessed redeeming qualities. She was relatively down-to-earth by hot model standards, not particularly promiscuous (she even usually only slept with the men who had already lied about marrying her, which in a way is practically Victorian by modern standards), and didn't exhibit excessive enthusiasm for depleting her father's or future husband's finances. She was family-oriented, good with children, etc.
I saw her a few more times, sighed when she revealed she'd visited her ex, departed for Scotland, and experienced severe secondhand embarrassment when she had a pregnancy scare and decided I was the appropriate person to consult. I provided general advice mostly out of sympathy. Life presents unique challenges when you lack intelligence and constantly get manipulated by men seeking short-term pleasure when you want long-term commitment. Nevertheless, she continued calling at inconvenient hours requesting that I return and marry her, which became increasingly awkward after I acquired a girlfriend here. I changed phones and neglected to provide my new number.
We maintained Instagram connections, and she suddenly contacted me after an extended silence requesting a call. I was bored and agreed.
She'd been dating someone seriously for most of the year, with genuine intent to commit. He owned a small business in the same industry as her father (who was significantly more successful). She described him as kind and thoughtful ("he's almost as good at putting me at ease as you are!") and they'd discussed marriage.
I'd previously noted that she was relatively undemanding. This man was, if not impoverished, financially struggling. He lived with his parents and younger brother in a cramped house in an undesirable neighborhood, where said brother slept on the sofa due to insufficient bedrooms. Worse, his family maintained extremely conservative values. She'd once visited wearing a perfectly reasonable sundress, and his mother had become hysterical and demanded she cover herself during future visits.
When their relationship became serious, she'd issued a quasi-ultimatum. He needed to move out and secure independent housing before she'd cohabitate. He'd objected, claiming financial impossibility and, more importantly, cultural violations. In his tradition, men remained with parents unless circumstances provided no alternative.
(She genuinely impressed me by stating that she ought to tell him that in her culture, it was expected that the bride and groom get their own place. I almost clapped like a seal.)
I can't fault the financial reasoning, but surprisingly, she revealed that her father supported the marriage idea and offered financial assistance for property purchase or rental. She'd specifically mentioned openness to relocating within the same apartment complex or neighborhood to maintain family proximity. This would represent a massive downgrade in living standards for her, given her upscale current neighborhood.
Her father had actually offered to transfer control of his business empire to this man. The boyfriend couldn't claim financial hardship; his prospective father-in-law would fund the relocation and provide the keys to the kingdom. The man remained unhappy. His pride was wounded by the concept, and he claimed his family would judge him for accepting.
(He also had the audacity to demand substantial donations in the form of thousands of dollars worth of gold jewelry for his extended relatives.)
As I, self_made_human, absorbed this information, I was shaking my head vigorously. Some people genuinely don't recognize good fortune. As an honest wage slave in a foreign land, I could only marvel at this man’s ability to fumble the largest economic windfall of his life for the sake of an ideology built out of sticks, mud, and maternal approval. If some elderly gentleman developed such fondness for me that he offered both his daughter's hand and most of his wealth, I'd definitely give it serious consideration. I'd be tempted even now, except for my complete lack of interest in operating a large clothing business. This guy already ran a struggling version of the same thing. What did he have to lose?
I expressed sympathy and truthfully stated that I considered him an idiot with either no backbone or one bent in the wrong direction. The latter might be attributed to a stick lodged in his posterior. Speaking from experience, I explained that I had previously stood up to my parents when I was dead set on marrying one of my exes, even when all the world had protested that she wasn't good for me (it's neither here nor there that the World, or at least my parents, were right about that). She wanted me to communicate this to him directly via video call. Her plan involved presenting me as a UK-based psychiatrist she'd consulted for advice (technically accurate, I suppose). She offered substantial payment for this service. Then she requested assistance with her cervix, because I had, for reasons that escape me now, mentioned hymenoplasty.
"Do men really care if their partner is a virgin?"
"Some do? But it's 2025, you can work around it. But didn't you tell me you'd been together for a year? Don't tell me you didn't sleep with him."
"I did."
"Then how is he going to object to you not being a virgin on your wedding night? You can claim that's his fault!"
"Nooooo... I was thinking about if it doesn't work out, what about the next guy?"
I desperately pleaded with her not to approach my own parents (gynecologists) seeking that service. That isn't quite the kind of referral they need from me. A Muslim female gynecologist? Experts in that field, please look up one of those. She remained persistent, so I attempted to discourage her with graphic details about how women in historical periods would use bladders filled with chicken blood to simulate the expected gore. I recall conducting basic sex education using conveniently positioned curtains to demonstrate hymen rupture and restoration. Med school has taught me many things, some of them useful.
I eventually managed to escape, but my conversations with this woman are fascinating solely due to the absurd destinations they reach. I declined another round of marriage proposals, citing prior commitments, but mentioned I'd contact her during my next visit. I probably will, because getting laid is likely the minimum compensation I can expect after the sheer confusion and bewilderment she generates.
Models? Not even once, specifically not twice.
I mean if her family is relatively smart probably your children will be fine as well?
I should have been more specific:
From what I could gather, the rest of her family are reasonably well off.
Anyway. Marrying someone below average in intelligence is close to a deal-breaker for me. I strongly value intelligence, at least for the sake of my future kids. I'm the kind of guy who intends to at least try and talk my future spouse into opting for embryo selection for IQ and overall disease risk. Now, if the girl in question was gorgeous and had enough money that we wouldn't have any financial concerns for life, I'd be right on that.
And, to put it bluntly, I genuinely believe I can do better. That might come across as conceited, but I still think it's true! I'm an okay looking guy, who makes decent money, live in the West (which is a big deal for Indian women), a doctor etc. I got into training relatively young, so I'll be a mid-level psychiatrist when I'm in my very early 30s, and hopefully done with career advancement by my mid 30s. As far as I can tell, I'll only get more attractive and appealing with time, my uncle, a senior shrink in his 50s, still has women all over him.
Indian women tend to at least have a kernel of pragmatism. They look at this and are almost always keen. Even right now, if I decided I wanted to get hitched, all it would take is coming home for a few weeks and hitting the apps, or just asking my family to put out feelers on my behalf.
I'm late 20s, and would likely be at my best-by mid 30s. However, I think it's better to be a dad younger than that, raising kids in the West is hard fucking work, and the more energy and health I have in me, the better. As of right now, the plan is to look for someone here (easier said than done the dating market is abysmal), and if that's not successful, consider going the arranged marriage route with semi-seriousness when I'm done with the my current stage of training.
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Then any potential offspring would probably be fine, intellectually speaking at least.
Your kids aren’t a strict combination of you and your spouse - it’s your respective whole families being blended
I would be more worried if she was smart while her whole family were mouth breathers
Perhaps I oversold it. Her brother is highly intelligent and competent. Her dad is a reasonably successful businessman. Her mom is a housewife. I can expect that the brother is the smartest, though I'm sure the dad is no idiot. I don't know enough about her mom to really comment.
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Desi women are so beautiful. I don't know what Nixon was talking about.
Is it possible to learn this power?
(I’m, uh, asking for a friend)
The power to find Indian women attractive?
Yes
First, one must move out of Somalia or Inner Mongolia, or at least unstick one's self from the nearest toilet. There are 1.4 billion of us in India, and even sex-selective abortion hasn't prevented half of them being female. You might find a sample near to home, we seem to get everywhere.
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There were lots of hot Indian girls in my New Jersey high school. But Indians aren't very popular on 4chan's /gif/ and /s/ boards, so I haven't seen many hot ones since leaving high school.
Checking Pornhub, I am somewhat astonished to see that, if I search for "bikini" and filter by the Indian category, there are only 89 matching videos on the entire site (versus 1712 in the Asian category), and most of them are not particularly appealing.
Searching for "india pageant" on YouTube reveals Miss Universe India 2025 Grand Finale, which is five hours long. You could use that as a guide for what the subcontinent's exemplars of beauty look like.
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Idk just Google "beautiful Indian women" and you'll see plenty of examples.
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Belonging to the Global Latina Belt has its perks.
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So he wasn't willing to marry a non-virgin he apparently liked well enough to date in exchange for a large dowry? Am I hearing that right?
Even in India?
I don't think her lack of virginity was an issue, he wasn't quite that hypocritical. She'd told him about her previous partners (but probably not me). That was her worrying about the potential next guy.
India is a big country!
We have:
In our semi-shared social milieu, her behavior is excusable, even if it's a negative. People aspire to have a virginal, unblemished wife, but usually cave in and settle for something more realistic. However, she's an ethnic Punjabi, and they're usually rather hypocritical (more than most) when it comes to this. Men are encouraged to sow their wild oats, their moms might tut, but won't do anything. Women? Uh..
She's had maybe 3-5 sexual partners, and most of that happened during longterm relationships. It's not that big a deal to a liberal man, but his family might raise objections. My dad called me later that day, and I told him the whole story to general merriment. I also, half-jokingly, asked if he'd be okay with me marrying her, to which he replied that he hoped I could do better than "second hand goods".
You can see my reply to sun_the_second for a more exhaustive take on why she's right to be concerned. If it weren't for her other issues, I personally couldn't care less about it.
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I catch myself thinking that if accepting the business was a precondition to marriage, it would feel more like a downside to me, on account of having neither experience nor desire nor, I suspect, much talent in running businesses. But I suppose what Fang Yuan would say is along the lines of "even if you run it into the ground within a year, you've benefitted as long as you don't go into debt".
You know, I was just browsing the RI sub, mourning the fact that I had finished the novel again.. Fang Yuan would have put a baby in her, then refined them both into Gu.
Anyway. Her dad didn't frame it as a precondition, it was a genuine offer. He's getting on in years, and he'd love to have someone take over the business. His son is busy doing something that makes too much money in an MNC abroad to bother, his daughter? She couldn't run a Nestlé distributor during a drought. So the only real options are to sell, or to look for a SIL who can handle things.
I can only stress how hard they're bending over backwards to accommodate this guy. Indian families tend to be very class/wealth conscious, she's marrying down in that sense. Different ethnic group, different religion. This is incredibly rare, and the boyfriend really thinks too highly of himself for his own good but that's his prerogative.
You must consider that the boyfriend is not being pigheadedly stupid and recognizes the offer on the table: and she is really that bad. That even a life of easy living is not worth the trouble of marrying this particular woman.
That is a possibility that I can't rule out with any real certainty, I did just date her casually over a few months. However, I still think that's unlikely. She's not a bad person, from my perspective, she's doing everything she can to help herself, just severely handicapped by not being smart.
He stayed with her for a year, took the idea of marriage seriously, indirectly asked for a dowry. That's not really the behavior of someone who doesn't want her, even if a combination of pride and adherence to protocol means he isn't willing to follow through. I still think that his ego getting in the way is the most parsimonious explanation, he's definitely not reading articles on the heredity of intelligence and taking them seriously.
If you date enough absolutely gorgeous women you will find out two things:
A shocking number of them are obnoxiously perfect (by which I mean they are smart, kind, and functional). It's quite unfair! ...And it puts pressure on the relationship because they know they can have anyone.
For the ones that aren't, well it gets tiring and it happens oddly fast (especially because most of them aren't good in bed). A girlfriend + porn rapidly starts to seem better than the 10/10 girlfriend who is annoying. If you happen to know a bunch of beautiful women closely you'll be shocked at how much some of the complain about not getting laid especially the ones in a serious relationship. The quote "no matter how hot she is, someone out there is sick of dealing with her shit" is prescient.
I imagine this guy is having some number two action.
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'Not very smart' in the sense of unexceptional or in the sense of actually retarded? Like they are two different things.
Read the OP and judge for yourself. Based on my own read of same, I wouldn't go so far as "retarded" but "unexceptional" fails at doing her justice in the other direction.
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Noticeably below average, if not actually retarded. The kind of person who is literate, but definitely struggled in school, not that I have her test scores at hand.
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Maybe he has other aspirations?
Tao Zhu also comes to mind on the topic of RI and blowing a cute wife and huge wealth... Also, people can just be dumb without higher meaning in their actions.
My life is better when a random post of mine receives not just one, but two RI related replies. I can die happy.
Everyone has their own values/utility function, but this guy seemed quite serious about wifing her, right till the issue of the move arose. I get the cultural issues and desire to stay close to family, but she was willing to help him find an apartment in the same building! My parents might as well complain of abandonment if I move to the basement (if we had one). The barriers seem insignificant, it's no Five Regional Wall.
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Why though? Just because he's so much better for her than the usual fare she gets around her?
I highly doubt the Gu of Cute but Retarded would be of more use to him than securing the favor of a wealthy righteous clan.
It makes sense to me; he needs someone to marry his daughter so she stops her bad habits(after all, it sounds like it's mostly her getting taken advantage of) and take care of her and someone to take over his successful business. Win-win. It's a scenario that would strike me as plausible but not exactly common- sort of like winning the lottery- in the modern US, let alone India.
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I don't know for sure, but that's a likely reason.
She's late 20s, same age as me. That is slightly long in the tooth by Indian standards. Not the end of the world by any means, but it'll only get harder once she hits her 30s. She was fretting about this during our video call.
It's also bad from the perspective of being a trophy wife, with little to offer except looks and decent familial wealth. Her family are well off, but not ridiculously so. If she was a working professional, she could probably delay till her early 30s before things got really bad.
The arranged marriage market in India is quite brutal. I would flourish in it, because I'm a qualified guy (age is far less of a factor). Her family is quite liberal in mostly turning a blind eye to her romances, but if I had to guess, largely because she seems serious about locking a guy down and it saves them a lot of hassle. Love is a great lubricant, and at least cuts down on dowry demands.
To the modal, conservative leaning potential marriage partner:
She has no end of guys down to fuck. I remember, on one of our dates, she showed me her Bumble matches. So many the counter broke. But how many would want to put a ring on it? Most would be like me, in for a ride but not willing to take the car out of the dealership for good.
To an extent, her anxiety is well founded. She only has a few years before it becomes an uphill struggle, even if it won't be literally impossible to find a good partner. Ed creds and a good job would have sweetened the deal, but she's not there, and she's not a supermodel either.
This guy was:
To a family that has wealth but concerns about the continuity of said wealth, she could do worse. I presume her family would have loved me, but we never got to the stage of introductions. I made it clear I was leaving soon, and it would be a good while before there was a chance I'd be back.
I mean, this is a sad story. You didn't want to marry her for reasons, this guy doesn't want to marry her for reasons. (I do think there's an element of pride there about not wanting to be perceived as the male version of a gold-digger, but whatever).
She's not sleeping around because she's riding the cock carousel, as the crude phrase has it. According to you, she only had a handful of boyfriends and slept with them in the context of 'this is a serious long-term relationship'.
She wants to get married, but can't. This is not the temptress of redpill lore, she has all the perceived advantages in the dating marketplace but can't find a guy who wants to marry her, and it's not because she's looking for unattainable perfection.
An arranged marriage would be the best chance for her: her parents find a decent guy who will be happy enough with a ditzy (but loyal) wife who looks good, has enough knowledge of wealthy social circles to fill the role of running the household and hosting and supporting his career, and he is capable enough to take over the family business and not run it into the ground.
I hope she finds someone soon, this is wasting her life and chances for what sounds like a nice (if dumb) girl. Remind me to say a prayer for her, the traditional one I know is "St Anne, St Anne, find me a man" but looking it up online the other matchmaker saints (for women) are St. Andrew, St. Anthony of Padua, and the Archangel Raphael. I guess St. Nicolas of Myra fits there too with the dowries he arranged.
You're welcome to say a prayer for her, I'm sure she'd be touched if she knew, and I might well tell her if you do.
I do pity the lady. Her situation isn't the best, and she's stuck in the very common trap of being used to romantic relationships and feeling unwilling to settle for a more pragmatic arranged marriage; all while a pit of dread forms in her gut telling her the former isn't working out. She's not a bad person, even if I'm not seeking to marry anyone until, at the very least, I'm done with my current training.
(It's not that arranged marriages are bad, even I don't really think so. But they're usually seen as unromantic, even if, in my experience, the people involved do quickly become very fond of each other. A hot woman used to a great deal of male attention might feel let down by one - and if the guy was a real catch, he likely wouldn't be looking)
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Thanks for the writeup and several flashbacks I had while reading this. It feels weirdly comforting to see situations similar to (formerly) my own, I remember being haunted by fumbling such a rare chance encounter but it seems to be common enough to crop up even here. At least this is my cope now.
I consider myself a hard-ass individual in most respects but extremely naive women being totally clueless about anything beyond the words exchanged are
my fetishthe one thing my heart cannot bear to witness, especially when I get told about all the times she got duped in the past cpt. Save-a-Hoe calls all hands on deck reflexively. Last time I tried my damndest to get the girl's mental toolbox up and running in at least some basic capacity, and while it lasted it even worked, but as soon as the romantic attachment was gone everything else went with it, and she was right back to the old habits (including picking a new guy to cling to) in literally a few days. She did write me an apology later, wanted to stay friends and promised to internalize things and change, but ngl I'm not holding my breath.I honestly got the impression that people like her prefer having no agency beyond the choice of partner; in my own case (likewise wealthy and insulated, with her entire life unsubtly arranged by her parents behind the scenes - e.g when I pointed out the possibility that her getting into the top university with below-average grades was not exactly a stroke of luck, she was genuinely shocked, and shortly devastated when she got curious, asked her father, and he bluntly told her their family made a uh, generous donation) this was all but explicitly stated, with a strange sort of pride even, something like "yes I may be stupid but at least My Heart Is My Own". At times like these I felt my rational-ish influence was actively dragging her down and introducing unwelcome doubts into a blissfully empty head that consciously looks away and refuses to entertain worldly concerns. I distinctly feel that if I'd been any good at manipulation and was less conscientous I would've gotten anything I wanted out of her, up to and including keys to the kingdom, with very little resistance.
On one hand the failure to do so still stings, as a wise man once said - hesitation is defeat; on the other hand, put this way I would not want to roll the dice on child genetic makeup either, girls are cutest when they're almost retarded but I imagine it hits differently when you're the father.
I mean her parents and brother aren't retarded, right? Won't she just revert to the mean with her genetic contributions most like?
It’s a strange sentiment to me… I’ve never really thought it or felt it. Idiocy in a girl kind of gives me a sinking feeling, “oh no… ugh.” Intelligence is interesting and makes me want to stick around. I guess I’m the odd duck if people are stating it so confidently, though.
I don't know, a bit of naivety in a girl is cute... but being able to keep up intellectually, and even contribute to an intellectual conversation, is beautiful.
A fresh and youthful attitude is lovely and joyous. Is that what people mean by retarded, do you think? What, do you have to be jaded and brooding to be intelligent?
Well, whatever. I’m in agreement with you in any case.
The best partner is both, imo. Half my jokes are silly stupid nonsense (I can't even count the number of times my wife and I have accused each other of being a "Sneef Snorf") and the other half are clever and elaborate constructions designed to sound like something reasonable and/or intelligent until they think about it for several moments and untangle the hidden meaning: which turns out to be silly stupid nonsense. I once wrote a two page short story with seemingly arbitrary fantasy and fairy tale features all to build up to the conclusion which was a sentence consisting of weird typos my wife (then girlfriend) had sent me while drunk the previous night.
I suppose someone less intelligent could still have appreciated the goof, but probably not to the same extent. Or wouldn't have taken the teasing in as much fun, as part of the embarrassment at her misspelling is because she ordinarily spells things correctly while sober. And someone less intelligent probably wouldn't have been able to respond to my hack MSPaint "photoshops" of our cat's head onto movie characters with an even higher quality photoshop of her own. And someone who took themselves seriously just wouldn't have appreciated the goofs at all.
You need both.
I still don’t get it. That sounds like regular silliness to me, not idiocy. Intelligence doesn’t preclude goofiness; good comics tend to be pretty bright, because they need to put their finger on the audience’s pulse.
But people seem to be talking, sometimes, about feeling attracted to “tee hee math is hard” kind of nonsense. And I don’t get it.
My guess is that they're being attracted to the silliness part of it and attributing the lack of intelligence as a cause of the silliness. Which potentially has some merit: I think there is a negative correlation between intelligence and silliness on average. I could be wrong, some people do just want to be way smarter than their partner, as some combination of pride and the ability to win arguments and control things, but I think most of it is correlations and stereotypes connecting intelligence to other things. If I had to choose between an intelligent bitter feminist constantly comparing everything I do to a historical dictator, and a sweet highschool dropout country girl with rocks for brains and a heart of gold, I'd choose the latter. If for some reason I was convinced that intelligence inevitably produced the former and wasn't aware of the exceptions I would have been tempted to join more unintellectual activities to try to find unintelligent women. Or just despaired and given up because I don't think they would like me even if I did like them.
The point being, I think some men do think this way. And I think statistically they're partially correct but missing plenty of exceptions.
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For the sake of argument:
Dude with an IQ of 130. Girl with an IQ of 90. Her parents and sibling are roughly 130.
The heritability of IQ is between 0.5-0.8. Let's run with 0.6.
Mid parental IQ is 110.
Deviation from population mean: 110 - 100 = 10 With heritability of 0.6: Expected deviation = 10 * 0.6 = 6
Expected IQ = 100+6 = 106
My understanding is that this would have an SD of about 10-15 points.
If the girl too had an IQ of 130, the expected value would be 118, which is a big jump.
I'm not quite sure how to account for the fact that in the 90 IQ scenario, the girl is more likely to have environmental contributors that lower IQ rather than genetic issues. I'm not Cremieux. All else being equal, 12 IQ points is a big deal! I'd pay a lot to have my kids come out with an additional 12 points. I would fistfight a dog smaller than a labrador for a mere five.
I don’t know about the chick described in the OP, but in my Lived Experience women are smarter than you (the general you) think. That is, women’s IQs are higher than what their personalities would suggest—as holding IQ constant, on average women are more basic and boring than men.
Men have the burden of performance. Hence women being less (intentionally) funny than men, and women consistently, signficantly underperforming men in knowledgability tests, despite only a modest IQ gap if you’re Hanania-pilled. I doubt, in a hypothetical where their life is on the line, an above-Lizardman’s-Constant proportion of people would pick a randomly selected woman over a randomly selected man to win a trivia game to save their life.
The basicness is amplified for young attractive women, who are generally kind of “retarded” and clueless about the world, even if you know that their grades and test scores are/were high. Talking to a given hot chick outside of her preferred topics such as herself, TV/movies, make-up/fashion, celebrity gossip, or interpersonal drama runs the risk of her finding you WEIRD or—ironically enough, BORING—just as you might talk to a little kid about his or her favorite toys, movies/TV shows, school friends to keep him or her engaged. I suppose there is no reason to be interesting or knowledgable when you’ve been coddled all your life, and people will pay attention to, help, and accomodate you no matter what.
So the IQ gap between oneself and retarded hot chick [X] might be surprisingly small. And thus marrying a retarded hot chick doesn’t necessarily mean dooming your kids to be mid IQ-wise, or possibly retarded themselves.
Your calculations using the input assumptions look correct, but I question the applicability of the inputs to most situations smart young men would find themselves in, given assortative mating and homophilic social sorting (“Different Worlds” and Young Earth Creationists come to mind). A 40-point IQ gap is pretty vast for just an acquaintanceship to be made and maintained, much less a potential relationship.
A typical 130-IQ young man likely doesn’t have that many <= 90-IQ people in his social circle. Even without social sorting/assortative mating, <=90 IQ people are only 25% of a population with a mean of 100 and an SD of 15. If one’s social circle has a still-pretty-modest average IQ of 115 and an SD of 15, this already drops to under 5%. He likely doesn’t have too many prospects from online dating, social media, or IRL cold approaches (each of which would still have some social sorting and assortative mating). Plus, in your hypothetical, the girl’s offspring IQ would likely regress to a higher mean than 100 given her parent and sibling IQs.
If that dog is a near-labrador-sized member of the Breed of Peace: after the nannying experience, you might not still be around to see a given kid come out.
In the specific me, I'd say I'm pretty good about gauging how smart women are. I know plenty of them are incredibly basic despite, by other objective metrics, being highly successful. The number of female colleagues here who are whip-sharp docs while being enthusiastic fans of Love Island aren't low at all.
I've ended relationships because the women in question were either too dumb, too boring, or both. And I have met one (or two, perhaps three) who were both attractive and interesting, or at least able to hold a conversation.
In this particular case, I think I'm quite well founded in my belief that she's not smart. She has no real interests beyond partying and makeup, she told me she always struggled in school and whatever "educated housewife" degree she did was for the sake of it, and she'd wistfully say that her brother was both the smart one, and that he looked down on her because of it. And the questions she sometimes asked me, it was like meeting someone from an uncontacted tribe...
Not on a dating app! I was swiping on pretty faces, and only filtering later. This current boyfriend met her during a modeling gig, and that means that the IQ in the room was probably not much hotter than room temperature (in Fahrenheit).
I probably wouldn't beat a Velvet Hippo. I'd just try and protect my genitals, so that they could suck out some sperm IDF-style when they found my half-eaten corpse. For the sake of argument, I'll recalibrate it to labradoodle or smaller.
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when it comes to IQs the testing is done so the population mean for men and women are both 100. i assume you could alter the composition of questions so men or women as a group had a higher mean than the other group. so your impression of women's IQs being lower than what a test might show could be because you are measuring based on aspects that men generally do better than women.
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Maybe I misunderstand you, but this is imo calculated the wrong way. Presumably, most of the dudes family is also 130 IQ, and you already explicitly spelled out that her parents and siblings are all 130 IQ. If the expected child IQ of a 130 IQ pairing from a 130 IQ wider family is actually 118 ... What astronomical luck did the families have up to then?
First, heritability is a red herring, since we're not in an adoption study or similar situation. These are rich parents raising their own rich daughter. The relevant factor is regression to the mean, which is generally estimated to be ca 0.5, i.e. if you take your spousal IQ_s, and compare it to the population mean IQ_p you're descended from, then you're kids IQ will be roughly (IQ_s + IQ_p)/2.
The population mean you regress to is generally speaking that of your actual sub-population, which is your wider family; Ideally you also know the IQ of your grandparents and uncles and aunts, that improves the estimate further. It's not always 100, which is a very common misconception. It's generally trivially acknowledged for clear examples, such as ethnic ashkenazi jewish among gentiles, but it even holds among seemingly homogenous groups. The reason you see regression towards 100 is partially that assortative mating in superficially homogenous groups is only moderate, so usually there is some difference between the respective spousal family background, and partially an artifact of averaging. But it certainly holds for ethnically separated groups with rather strict assortative mating as is typical in large parts of India, as I understand it.
So the expected child IQ of a 130 IQ pairing from a 130 IQ wider family is simply 130. With a single spouse at 90, the spousal average becomes 110 instead, and the final number after regression is around 120. Still a 10 point difference though, so I guess not a big difference on that account.
Goddammit, I knew I'd done something wrong. I was actually aware that it's not correct to use the population mean of 100, but I was unsure how to account for it. Thank you for the correction.
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A cute girl who is retarded can usually make it work. There are plenty of men thinking with their dicks who would snap that up and be very happy about it. I'd be concerned about a son who came out a himbo, sure, that's not the end of the world, but I personally aspire for better.
My condolences. She clearly means well, but I share your suspicion that she lacks the ability to actually enact her wishes. Not everyone can be above average in terms of intelligence or common sense, if only because that's logically and statistically impossible.
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Many such cases. I knew an attractive, intelligent woman who was incredibly sheltered and naive (raised wealthy and insulated). She ended up dating a rather oafish guy for several years (who similar to your example, was also offered the keys to the kingdom by her wealthy father but turned it down because he was "going to make it on his own" [he did not]), and seemed to date him because he was the first man to speak to her at the first student mixer before classes started. It was fascinating to watch someone so intelligent at coursework and tests have zero practical intelligence for interacting with people who might have ulterior motives.
Is she still single? I can fix her, or at least I could use a green card.
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Although I enjoyed reading this and enjoy rubbernecking at a potential car wreck as much as anyone, what's the point of staying in touch with her? It seems she provides mostly idle amusement and the possibility of future sex. It also seems to have some outside risk of blowing up in your face--e.g. ruining a hypothetical future relationship that does have real potential. If it's primarily charity, then there are millions of other recipients who would likely benefit more from your ministrations with a much lower risk profile.
A fair question to ask. I do it both because I'm bored, and because I genuinely enjoy helping people. I feel bad for her, she lacks the kind of agency that most people on this sub takes for granted. I genuinely don't know very many stupid people in my personal life, it's amazing how much good looks and money can cushion you from the consequences, right until it doesn't. She lives her life in a daze, circumstances seem out of her control, everyone seems nice, but they're often just lying through their teeth to get into her pants. Someone who was smarter would confidently wrest that to their advantage, she just suffers. I suppose that's why she likes me, I'm one of the few men she knows who never lied to her, or stopped treating her kindly when she had nothing left to give. (The bit about getting laid next time I see her is mostly in jest, I'm a red-blooded man with no serious objection to sleeping with hot models, but I'm not going to go out of my way to achieve that)
The most influence she plausibly has over her life is her choice of partner, and giving her some advice doesn't cost me much.
All they have to do is ask. I try and help just about anyone who does, male or female! I'm not quite Captain Save-A-Hoe, but I know my tendencies. Am I drawn to broken people, or are they drawn to me? God only knows. In my day job, the answer is clear.
I'm presently single. Just like last time, it wouldn't be very difficult for me to cut her off should that change. In the meantime, I would genuinely be happy for her if she did find a nice guy to settle down with, she's not a bad person. I will probably wrangle invites to the wedding, God knows I miss hitting the buffet line at the Big Fat Indian ones now I'm away. It would be very funny, if nothing else.
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Fuel a sense of superiority. Won't lie, I was guilty of rubber necking in the same fashion when I was in my 20's. You take the short path, lock down your education and career, it's a good feeling. But your peers might have taken the short path in other aspects (family, investing, home ownership, etc). It compensates for the lack of other life milestones in those other areas.
Oh, I definitely did the same thing in my 20s. Sooner or later, though, you end up with that hot fling you stayed in touch with breaking into your condo and threatening you with a handgun unless you get back together with her. Which teaches a useful lesson, but it may be one of those lessons that can only learned by direct experience.
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