site banner
PaperclipPerfector  19hr ago (text post)   1649 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 29, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The most depressing part is realizing this will make no difference. Everyone who mattered was aware this was going on and was fine with it, and that will remain true.

I know it feels good to blackpill, but it does look like roughly 90 people from multiple states are facing charges so far.

You can argue that those 90 people don't matter because the Democrats/Illuminati/Jews/WEF/Rosthschilds/Saurian Aliens from Zeta Reticuli aren't catching a RICO rap, but I'll take whatever wins I can get right now.

While you hang those 90 pickpockets, are another 900 working the crowd watching the executions?

Would you prefer 990 and no show?

Are such investigations downstream of DOGE etc. querying of government spending? That is, would they be happening if Trump wasn't in office and it was President Kamala and VP Tim?

I have a depressing notion this is so, and I would like to be proven wrong (honestly!)

I've seen Elon Musk making some noises that it is downstream of DOGE investigations, but the man is unashamed about self-aggrandizement.

Assuming a judge doesn't simply throw out their convictions. It does however seem to be a stake through the heart of the "fraud is so miniscule it's not worth enforcing" argument that's been made about all kinds of welfare programs.

That's what is so astounding about this, because generally fraud is miniscule; when you get into cases of (say) social welfare fraud in my country, it's often genuine mistakes. Certainly there are also cases of deliberate fraud and the amount mounts up over the years, but this is €24 million out of a total budget of €27 billion, so around 0.09% which is not great but which is not huge huge either.

Something this big going on for years is amazing, and it seems to be all kinds of schemes, so $250 million for Covid child nutrition programme, other Covid support programmes, this childcare scam - allegedly $9 billion in total? That's serious money sloshing around.

Minnesota budget spending in 2025 was $59 billion, so if we spread $9 billion over 5 years, that's roughly $1.8 billion per year, which comes to 3% of annual budget for 2025. Not a huge amount relatively speaking, but not nothing either. And if we leave it as $9 billion out of $59 billion, that's 15% which is getting up into respectable figures.

A huge percentage of covid stimulus was passed out as more-or-less universally acknowledged fraud(google 'shaniqua llc' if you'd like). There's tons of anecdata that lots of the covid institutional support was completely wasted as well. 'Fraud prevention' for this particular set of programs was not only not a priority it was literally not considered at all- it was intended as plausibly deniable handouts.

The autism and childcare scams almost certainly had a votes for political cover quid pro quo going on.

I think the most depressing part is knowing that your TOTAL lifetime tax liability is around $1M.

These people stole the LIFETIME tax output of around 10,000 people.

Taxes are a huge burden on people. They’re one of the major things our politics are decided on. If I don’t pay these, or even if I mess them up, I’ll go to jail. CPAs are an entire, large, industry.

We’re all paying these things, and 10,000 peoples lifetime of burden to the government just gets robbed.

I pay taxes (a LOT of taxes), I obey the laws, drive the speed limit etc. and then I turn on the internet and see stuff like this, people just openly robbing stores and filming themselves do it, see violent criminals released into my neighborhood etc.

Kindof hard to stomach honestly.

This never happens. If it does, it occurs only in insignificant amounts. Even if the amounts are significant, why do you care so much about what a small fraction of Somali immigrants are doing when billionaires steal more from all of us everyday?

I pay taxes (a LOT of taxes), I obey the laws, drive the speed limit etc.

It’s called Doing the Bare Minimum in holding up your end of the Social Contract. Paying a lot of taxes just means you’re privileged enough to exploit societal inequities.

I think the most depressing part is knowing that your TOTAL lifetime tax liability is around $1M. These people stole the LIFETIME tax output of around 10,000 people.

Something to cheer you up! The average American’s lifetime taxes paid is $525K, in which case the $8B would be more than the lifetime tax output of at least 15,000 people. MN is a bit higher but still under $600K per person. Highest by state is NJ at almost $1M. *grumpy @The_Nybbler noises*

You're posting a number of sarcastic comments in which you fail to speak plainly. Stop it.

Not alone that, this is money supposedly going to the needy, and this means the needy are left unserved and in want, while some people are enriching themselves hand over fist. It's screwing everybody over - the taxpayers, the honest people working in these fields, the people who really do need and deserve the services.

I like the government to fund some welfare services, and I generally dislike bureaucracy. I am also fine with some immigration.

Anyone who turns a blind eye to welfare fraud is effectively steering us towards an equilibrium with less welfare spending and more red tape. (And yes, red tape can very much prevent welfare from reaching the needy, because the needy often are not great at jumping through the hoops of bureaucracy.) If the perps are immigrants, it will also foster an anti-immigrant sentiment as surely as thunder follows lightning.

I wish I could blame some Ayn Rand fans who were working as moles to achieve that outcome, but in all likelihood the officials who turned a blind eye were probably SJ people who failed to think of the consequences. After all, Uncle Sam has plenty of money, and if the Somali skim a bit to keep their relatives from starvation, what is the harm?

Except that the taxpayers and voters feel very differently (I imagine). And sending money to a failed state through intransparent channels is not necessarily net positive.

In short, lawfulness is (at least) instrumentally useful. Even if you feel your cause is good, breaking laws to further it will generally generate a backslash. I imagine SBF did not donate a lot of money to EA in 2025.

Anyone who turns a blind eye to welfare fraud is effectively steering us towards an equilibrium with less welfare spending and more red tape.

Only if there's anyone with the power to add the red tape to attempt to stop the fraud. If not, money given to fraudsters simply increases without bounds, as with SSI/SSDI fraud.

One thing that’s important to remember, and that I feel a lot of people don’t remember, is that governments don’t fund anything - they direct funds towards other people. Taxpayers fund things.

You don’t want the government to spend money on social welfare - you want your fellow Americans to do so. Unfortunately, a large portion of your fellow taxpayers feel like they are footing the bill for the destruction of their lifestyles. They feel that the spending is both excessive and directly against their interests.

Social welfare has always been something the right wishes to reduce - mostly because social welfare is too indiscriminate towards those it helps. Many taxpayers don’t want to spend money helping an unrepentant fuckup, but would be fine donating it to someone who is down on their luck. The government being in charge of distribution removes this discretion, and (considering both this story and the story of FEMA workers refusing to assist Trump voters) actively works against their intuition of who needs help.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats