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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   33029 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 19, 2023

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The Titan submersible suddenly became very hot culture war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Titan_submersible_incident

The wikipedia link is quite thorough.

TLDR as of 2023-06-22 000000z seems to be:

5 people are trapped on a submersible that has lost contact with the outside world.

It was trying to visit the wreck of The Titanic.

Major effort rescue is on under way.

They are running out of air in the next couple of hours.

The name of the vessel is Titan (come on, no one can be that brazen, you are tempting fate)

The people are couple of billionaires, explorer, and the CEO of the company

The vessel can be opened only from outside.

The vessel used some off the shelf parts (like a logitech controller) and somewhat exotic materials.

Now comes the culture war

  1. Somewhat lack of empathy for the people there because of their status in the crazier places of the internet.

  2. The way the vessel was built and operated embodied the SV ethos. There are reports that it was not certified or audited by anyone, that the hull testing procedures were not adequate, that the company moved fast and broke things. So right now said ethos is having torn a new one.

  3. Surfaced a recording of the CEO bragging how they don't want to hire 50 years old white guys because they are not inspiring.

To me actually 2 is the most interesting one out there - 1 is just internet being the internet, 3 - if a small error could lead to death - hire the most safety oriented, pedantic and boring people there are to design your product.

But with silicon valley moving more and more prone to overtaking the meatspace - their physical products kinda suck. From smart thermostats to fridges to whatever we actually have degradation of the experience. So I think we are in a rough ride. And the more products they make smarter or move fast - the more human lives will be at stakes.

I think more than these questions, it's the vast resources that have been marshalled to save these people that's been challenging me. A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries. Despite this, the occupants are nearly certainly lost, and would be so even if the vessel had been located by now. The near-zero probability of a rescue was very quickly made apparent to everyone.

It is interesting, to say the least, which imperilled lives cause governments to move mountains without a second thought or rational hope, and which lives may be lucky to see a dime and only then after the case has been proven in a half dozen impact studies and feasibility examinations and pilot programs. Probably one of the more perverse urgency/importance failures yet, but one can't really go around saying the government is too good at reacting to acute crises.

It’s especially striking given that reports are coming out that navy sonar heard the implosion, but the search was launched anyway. Its not like it would have given away vital intelligence, I’m sure the implosion was pretty damn loud.

Oh, so my second guess was right about the navy knowing but not bothering to tell anyone. Wonder why they decided to keep the drama going for a whole week? Very convenient thing to have taking up the news cycle right now.

The Navy may have known it was something but they may not have known what it was until they got news about a missing civilian submersible. I don't think we can or should look for a conspiracy there.

The military is not generally in the business of giving away intelligence unprompted. I’m sure there are thousands of very important court cases the NSA could solve right now if they decided to peer through those giant datacenters they have.

Very convenient thing to have taking up the news cycle right now.

Interestingly, I had the opposite reaction. This story is only as big as it is because there was basically no other news this week.

I mean, they could guess, but you keep the search going until you're certain anyway. You never want to err on the side of assuming they're dead if there's a chance they're alive, however slim.

It is interesting, to say the least, which imperilled lives cause governments to move mountains without a second thought or rational hope, and which lives may be lucky to see a dime and only then after the case has been proven in a half dozen impact studies and feasibility examinations and pilot programs.

Well, there's the fact that these folks are rich, sure. But you'll get vast resources sent your way for a rescue if you're a collection of children as well: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65871238

To be fair I also have had very similar thoughts about the response.

OP also missed another angle of the culture war - that some of the people in the sub were "GOP Donors" and therefore deserved to die. Just as insane as using reasonably affordable components to justify their demise. Wild!

The El Faro and Emmy Rose are all also pretty well-known examples of significant search and rescue resources being sent and continued long after any serious chance of rescue have long turned into recovery.

You’d be surprised how often something like this happens.

Even when it’s a mass, impersonal threat, we can really throw a lot of resources at the problem.

it's the vast resources that have been marshalled to save these people that's been challenging me. A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries.

Well, what else were we supposed to be doing with all those ships for the last 4 days?

It is good training that creates nice PR, it is relatively cheap - all of the people involved are on someone's payroll already.

The message - we got your back is important into building a common identity. And the most important thing - it is easy and requires comparatively little recourses compared to something like homelessness, public safety or low educational results. It is a well defined goal that even if technically challenging is not quagmire.

A quick skim through the wiki article lists 9 ships and 5 planes with back-office coordination across 3 military branches and 4 countries.

It's good skills practice for everyone involved, and unlike many "life-saving" expenditures, if these people are saved they have a very high likelihood of going on to live productive lives that are a net-benefit to those around them.

I mean… one of the people on board was the CEO.

Seems like he had a net negative impact on everyone who went on this particular expedition.

Yeah, but he was almost certainly going to face charges for operating an uninspected submarine if he survived. Even if it’s not technically illegal, that’s because it never occurred to anyone there was a need for creating a specific law against opening to the public a poorly tested submarine where the qualified personnel had been replaced by diversity hires and a PlayStation controller, and the process is the punishment.

The steelman: if the occupants of the submarine are saved (which is nigh impossible at this point) he would be made an example of: his company discredited, he himself fined and possibly jailed. As it is, the sub will either not be found, or it will be found filled with corpses, which also serves as an example of what not to do but is arguably not as effective as having a person to haul in front of a courtroom.

and unlike many "life-saving" expenditures, if these people are saved they have a very high likelihood of going on to live productive lives that are a net-benefit to those around them.

I can take "we're spending all this money on training personell, we might as well give them an exercise in something that looks like IRL conditions", but:

  • this feels a bit callous

  • oh yeah? What are they gonna do, invent a new proprietary smart-device juice squeezer that will lock you out if it hears you do a racism?

oh yeah? What are they gonna do, invent a new proprietary smart-device juice squeezer that will lock you out if it hears you do a racism?

Go on the speaking circuit to present their cautionary tale.

And present a ghostwritten book on daytime TV.

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