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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   3433 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for June 25, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

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I play a Co-Ed recreational sport in my spare time. One of the players has annoyed enough people that I'm thinking of kicking her out. But she has shown a willingness to report people to the national board for minor offenses.

Any thoughts on how to remove her without triggering national board reprisals?

She sounds like she has issues socializing, but she's also trying to play rec sports. Doesn't make much sense on the surface. I infer from this that she's at least somewhat aware of the former and using the latter as a way to fix that.

Which is to say: she might be more amicable to a frank one-on-one than you're presuming. Given that she seems to have no real power, I don't see any risk in giving it a try.

That's what I'd do. But I also kind of get off on roleplaying therapist.

But I also kind of get off on roleplaying therapist.

I do feel like we are being unwillingly recruited for her group therapy sessions. I do not like roleplaying therapist.

One approach is to make her want to quit, instead of firing her -- not sure what to suggest for making her life difficult in the context of a rec sports league though. Light-duty plausibly deniable bullying might do it, but for that you need a heartless bully.

Hilariously this is sort of what my wife suggested before she stopped herself and realized "oh, im suggesting bullying her out of the league ... let me think about this some more".

She is more likely to report the bullying I think. Someone on our mailing list jokingly called one of his friends fat, and she reported him. She is a little fat herself, so was obviously sensitive about that.

Also she is an anxiety ridden mess. Cries at tournaments, gets devastated by the slightest criticisms, etc. I feel like the slightest bullying would destroy her, or send her on a crazy war-path. I'm not really interested in dealing with either of those.

My default option right now is that she will just quietly never be on the team again, and never allowed to register for tournaments we host. No reasons ever given. I've also thought about removing her from the email list, but that would be obvious and lead to questions.

“Are we the baddies?”

Ghosting her is better than bullying. Straight up asking her to leave is better than either.

We are definitely the baddies.

I think I agree with that rank ordering

[asking her to leave] > [ghosting] > [bullying]

But I think the incentives are all screwy. Anyone who asks her to leave is probably going to get reported by her. The default behavior going forward will probably be to ghost her a bit. If someone tries to be "nice" and "inclusive" and make sure she is not ghosted, she will probably end up getting bullied by the people that are tired of dealing with her.

I'm in the league to play a sport, have fun, and stay in shape. I'm not here to be someone's group therapy outlet. There is a sliding scale of selfish <-> selfless. And I am admittedly much more on the selfish side when it comes to inter-personal interactions.

Tell me this is CoEd softball in Denver.

No, underwater hockey. Can't say where since that would narrow my identity down to a dozen people.

underwater hockey

I gotta be real, I was the DM of my DND group in college and this somehow seems nerdier.

It often attracts a sporty nerd type.

As if the underwater hockey part doesnt do that

There are dozens of us!

Haha fair. I know of a woman who may fit this description

Also she is an anxiety ridden mess. Cries at tournaments, gets devastated by the slightest criticisms, etc.

"The better to bully you with, my dear"...

I don't think I personally would be mean enough for this either though -- maybe you could recruit some Motteposters to your team as enforcers?

If she has any friends at all I guess the sensitive alternative would be some sort of sit-down chat -- it doesn't seem like she's getting what she'd like out of the sport, and could be better served by trying something else. (or a less competitive league? not sure the sport, but there's definitely opportunities out there for drop-in etc where nobody will criticize you for anything ever)

First of all, have someone else do it. Some will decry this as cowardice, but actually having lackeys to do the dirty work is one of the surest signs of competence in a leader or organizer.

Second, manufacture or record significant evidence of bad (in this case, unsportsmanlike? annoying?) behavior to show to your superiors in the national league. Every little thing, blow it way out of proportion. Have a dossier.

After your man or woman fires her, you call her, tell her the situation is tough, your hands were tied, but wish her all the very best and tell her to keep in touch. Fin.

I might have someone else do it. I'm willing to do it partly because I'm not very concerned with the consequences. She will hate me and report me to the league organization. Thing is, the people in league organization probably dislike her too. They ratted her out when she complained about someone else.

The only real evidence / reason we have for kicking her out is that she is annoying and multiple people don't want to play on a team with her. I suppose I could collect a list of all the people who have told me "dont put me on a team with her".

I don't really want to appear as the "good guy" when all is said and done. I also find her annoying and would rather never talk to her again.

Count me at least as in favor of you doing it yourself. He who passes the judgment swings the sword, etc. As for signifiers of competence, let be be finale of seem, as it were. My allusions runneth over. If you're worried sbout repercussions, weigh that against her presence. If the board has her on radar as a valued snitch/lackey/presence, that gives her a certain immunity. If not, why not just say she is disruptive? Of course none of my advice here is particularly strategic. Yet you suggest you're not so concerned with consequences, so I'd suggest following conscience.

I suppose I could collect a list of all the people who have told me "dont put me on a team with her".

Can't you just tell her that a lot of people don't want to play with her (without naming them)? "You're not a team player....so you're no longer a team player". The social humiliation, and the threat of even greater social humiliation (if for example she loudly asks for a vote), might be enough to shoo her off. It's honest, unburocratic, and you're not even the bad guy.

It’s going to trigger her either way, just fully document this to the national board beforehand and pull the bandaid off. You’re not dealing with your life savings here.

Yeah I was looking through the national league's website last night and wondering if there is some process for basically exiling people.

I quit playing a rec league because of the interpersonal drama, so I feel ya. Only thing I can think of is inform them early on about why you are booting her with some basic evidence and justification before doing so. Couldn't hurt!

Part of the problem is that we don't have a great justification. She just annoys a lot of people. She cries at tournaments, seems to be an anxiety ridden mess, and is unpleasant to be around. Also tattling on someone to the national org for some light ribbing between friends has not endeared her to anyone.

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