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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   31466 thread views

Israel-Gaza Megathread #1

This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.

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There's been some confusion over the beheaded babies claim. The ABC looks into it:

We've had some questions on the reports of beheadings that have been going around.

Claims of beheadings have been emerging after a media tour of Kfar Aza on Tuesday when soldiers told reporters that children had been beheaded during Hamas' attack of the kibbutz.

An IDF spokesperson reacted shortly after by saying it could not confirm the claims.

CNN on Wednesday reported that Tal Heinrich, a spokesperson for the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said that beheaded babies and toddlers had been found in Kfar Aza.

On the same day US President Joe Biden spoke to leaders of Jewish groups at the White House.

"I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children," he said.

The White House later clarified his claims by saying neither the president nor US officials had seen pictures or independently confirmed the alleged atrocities and that Mr Biden had based his comments on statements by the spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and media reports from Israel.

On Thursday IDF spokesperson Lieutenant Jonathan Conricus mentioned the claims while giving an update about the situation in Be'eri.

"We got very, very disturbing reports that came from the ground that there were babies that had been beheaded. And I admit it took us some time to really understand and to verify that report," he said on X.

"After eyewitnesses came forward and after a senior official in the Israeli coronary service, Zaka, came forward on record ... and said 'yes, I saw the bodies of beheaded babies', I think we can now say with relative confidence that this is unfortunately what happened in Be'eri ."

The allegations could not be independently confirmed, and authorities did not immediately offer further details or evidence.

I know some people have been waiting for more info before rushing to judgement, which is fair enough. Unfortunately, it seems like this particular horrific story is true.

On the same day US President Joe Biden spoke to leaders of Jewish groups at the White House.

"I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children," he said.

The White House later clarified his claims by saying neither the president nor US officials had seen pictures or independently confirmed the alleged atrocities and that Mr Biden had based his comments on statements by the spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and media reports from Israel.

As an aside, just about everytime I hear a direct quote from Biden in the MSM, it is directly followed by a 'clarification' from the White House. Trump also had 'clarifications' following his off the cuff statements, but not at this scale.

I hope America can eventually get a president that actually spouts something close to the White House's official position when asked to make a statement, because right now you're better off asking the press secretary rather than the president if you want to know America's position.

Yeah Biden gets a lot of passes for being a confused old man when the reality is he's nearly as much of a reflexive liar as Trump is. He just says what sounds good with no regard for whether it's true or not.

I don't think an IDF spokesperson saying "Yes, we've seen pictures of the results of our enemy's atrocities" is dispositive.

Jerusalem Post is now saying they have confirmed it:

The Jerusalem Post can now confirm based on verified photos of the bodies that the reports of babies being burnt and decapitated in Hamas's assault on Kfar Aza are correct.

I suppose I would believe it if someone from, say, the BBC or Reuters had personally viewed the pictures. I’m ambivalent about the truth content, but I’ll say that I (a) fully believe they killed babies and (b) wouldn’t be surprised at beheadings, although I’m somewhat more skeptical of claims of babies being beheaded.

"I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children," he said.

The White House later clarified his claims by saying neither the president nor US officials had seen pictures or independently confirmed the alleged atrocities

Are they trying to pull a Mitch Hedberg? That's one of the weakest "clarifications" I've seen recently.

It’s interesting that the Nayirah Testimony that got us into the Iraq War also featured dying babies. That turned out to be fabricated, but before that it was confirmed by Bush and a host of journalists.

Yeah, I’ve said it before but while killing at gunpoint and knifepoint is arguably more ‘visceral’ than suicide bombing (in that more remains of the victims, largely), blowing up a bus full of civilians isn’t much morally removed from a lot of the slaughter that happened on Saturday and so should hardly surprise anyone. I suppose sadism and torture add to it, but again, those aren’t new for them either.

Similar to how WWII bombing campaigns that caused far more destruction inspire less ire than a competition to decapitate 100 Chinese. (Including bombings by the same country).

Eh...it wasn't that a couple of shitheads had a sick competition but that the mainstream press reported favorably on it IMO.

Given terrorist attacks in the US and Europe the prior should be pretty high that they would commit atrocities like this. Even if they didn't, we know they slaughtered people at a music festival so they are committing war crimes regardless.

It’s true that it seems like the kind of thing Palestinian terrorists rampaging unopposed through a kibbutz might do, but it also seems like the kind of exaggerated rumor that would go around after such an event.

This sentence will get me put on a list, but Israel’s international credibility depends on releasing the dead baby pics.

…why does its credibility hinge on this? Hamas has played its own star witness for various, uh, lesser crimes.

This matters mostly for the credibility—or credulousness—of Western reporting.

Detractors will say it’s AI generated or shopped anyway. “Obviously Mossad can fake a photo” etc.

They did release these (DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE MURDERED BABIES), but as far as I can tell there's no decapitation in these pics. One might have his throat slit, they've censored it so it's hard to tell. The other two are burned to the point I can't discern what body part is which (I can however confirm from personal experience that's pretty much what an incompletely-burned baby looks like).

I don't think this release was intended to address that specific claim though.

EDIT: Ok, apparently these are the same photos that the Jerusalem Post is saying confirm the decapitation story. Which makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. They seem to do the opposite.

Considering that this indicates that the Israeli government is not shy to release gruesome photos of dead babies in general, what's the explanation for them not releasing photos of all the decapitated ones at this point?

My suspicion is that the 'beheaded babies' rumour is a deliberate op intended to portray whatever response they are planning to engage in as proportional -- there will be plenty of babies burned to a crisp in Gaza if the IDF invades. (I saw a video of a guy running through the streets with his own dead baby, who had been recovered from some rubble, already)

What's worse than blowing babies up as 'collateral damage'? Deliberately beheading them, of course -- so this is a thing that must be. By now there's been time to generate some fake photos even -- so my standard of proof for this incident is increasing daily.

Link appears to be dead. "Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else."

Still works for me.

Odd. Do I need to have an account to view, maybe?

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