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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   3049 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for June 22, 2025

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Can anyone explain America's love affair with the pickup truck? This is prompted by this Matt Yglesias post talking about abundance politics, and acknowledging that for working-class Hispanics (among others) owning a pickup is a key measuring stick for material prosperity and that it would be politically stupid for abundance-orientated Democrats to argue this point.

This isn't a question about why Americans drive much bigger personal vehicles than people in other countries - that is obvious. (Generally richer country, cheaper fuel, wider roads, more idiot drivers such that "mass wins" is seen as an important part of being safe on the roads). I think I understand why so many of these are built on a truck chassis (mostly CAFE arbitrage). But the thing I don't get is why the pickup as the big-ass form factor of choice. If you look at the big-ass personal vehicles in the London suburbs, you will see at least 5 full-size SUVs (as in the US, the most common form factor in affluent suburbia is the crossover, which no longer counts as big-ass) for every clean pickup. And if you look at work vehicles, you will see at least 10 vans for every pickup. Most of the work pickups I see in the London suburbs are owned by landscapers who regularly haul large quantities of fertilizer, so "ease of cleaning the bed" is the obvious reason for them. The pattern seems to be the same in other European cities, and googling "Tokyo traffic jam" brings up pictures with more pickups than Europe, but still many fewer pickups than vans or big-ass SUVs.

So my small-scale questions are:

  • Is it true that there are more clean pickups than full-size SUV's in the US? Everywhere or just in Red/Hispanic areas?
  • Is it true that there are more work pickups than work vans in the US?
  • Does anyone have a sense of why Americans choose pickups over other big-ass form factors?

I'm amazed that hardly anyone has mentioned what I think has to be the top practical reason to own a truck: they're the only vehicle class capable of towing more than trivial amount. That's why the pickup truck is practically indispensable to the suburban class (at least, here in benighted flyover country).

If you have have ambitions of boating, camping, jet skiing, four wheeling, motorcycling, or snowmobiling, then having a vehicle amply capable of towing the trailers or self contained mobile structures used for these activities is a prerequisite. And if you need a truck for towing anyways, might as well get one that can serve as a commuter and haul family and friends too. This is why the beds keep shrinking and the engines keep embiggening: the utility of the bed for cargo is secondary in most cases to its utility as traction motor.

If a pickup does, in fact, tow significantly better than a full-size SUV that would be a large part of the answer (even if just by perceived option value). Does it?

It would also explain some of the national difference - heavy-duty towing (>750kg trailer and >3500kg combination) requires a license endorsement in the EU (and thus in the pre-Brexit UK) so a lot fewer people imagine themselves doing it.

Yes, I think generally similarly-sized SUVs have a higher vehicle curb weight, which cuts into towing capacity. Trucks also generally have much better rear visibility.

In the US towing ~4000 lbs is pretty normal and one of the things a pickup might get used for, I wouldn’t say a pickup is necessarily better for it but everyone just assumes it is.

People in Europe have no problem towing their boats and trailers with regular cars.

You can throw things in the back without opening the door is the basic answer I think. Very casual, like you're getting stuff done on you're own time, your gear exposed to the elements etc. Work vans are more ubiquitous for actual company cars.

Can anyone explain America's love affair with the pickup truck?

I'm reminded of the odd demographics/tribal affiliations of this forum reading the replies you got. The luxury 4wd pickup truck is the greatest motor vehicle ever constructed for your average American suburban/rural man, it's available at a reasonable price from numerous manufacturers, and the drawbacks mostly don't matter to the people who buy them. If you compare them to other choices along the metrics that matter to the people that buy them, the big dumb pickup truck, much maligned, wins frequently.

The modern American pickup truck is as comfortable as any luxury car, with enormous storage capacity, complete capability across any situation, power and style. But most importantly: people buy them because they like them:

So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the answer is counterintuitive. Truck drivers use their trucks very much like other car owners: for commuting to and from work, presumably alone. The thing that most distinguishes truck owners from those of other vehicles is their sheer love of driving. “The highest indexed use among truck owners is pleasure driving,” says Edwards. Truck drivers use their vehicles this way fully twice as often as the industry average. “This is the freedom that trucks offer,” says Edwards.

People like big V8 engines. Not even necessarily for speed reasons, but they like the way they feel, the sound, the rumble, the sense of owning and using a powerful well engineered machine. A family friend of mine recently signed to buy a Z06 Corvette, which gets to 60 in under 3 seconds, but told me he never intends to drive it fast at all, he simple enjoys the sound and rumble of the bigger engine. Of course, modern pickups are about as fast as sporty cars of the past: a V8 F150 in 2025 gets to 60 in about the same amount of time as a V8 Mustang from 1995. They're not exactly slow, they cruise at highway speeds and pull out no problem.

People like big comfortable cars. They like having space to stretch out. They like having an excess of space for stuff, so they don't have to worry about how much they are carrying, or carefully clean and sort things each day.

People like having an excess of capability. Being able to haul things at any time, even if you don't need to often, is nice. Being able to haul way more than you need, is nice.

The reasons not to get one: it's difficult to park, it's bad on gas, stylistic reasons. Most suburbanites and rural dwellers never parallel park, and live in areas with abundant parking, so it doesn't matter to them. The increased gas cost of a pickup vs an SUV or full size van is pretty negligible. Gas might be annoyingly pricey, but it is factually cheap: the price difference between a 20mpg vehicle and a 30mpg vehicle is $600/10,000 miles, or about $6k over 100k miles, assuming an average of $3.50/gal. $6k is a pretty unimportant difference over the life of a car between one you like and one you don't, probably shouldn't make your decision for you. Stylistically, some people don't like them, some people do. The people who do, buy them.

Vehicle purchases are, at heart, irrational. Trucks are tough and fun and capable, and people dig being associated with that, in the same way that they seem to enjoy dressing up like their favorite sports stars and watching games, or putting on cowboy clothes on Halloween. I like to say that All Cars Are Drag, costumes that we put on and take off. And nowhere is this more relevant than with the Butch Drag offered by pickups. “When asked for attributes that are important to them,” Edwards says, “truck owners oversample in ones like: the ability to outperform others, to look good while driving, to present a tough image, to have their car act as extension of their personality, and to stand out in a crowd.” Trucks deliver on all of that. At a price.

I do think part of this discourse is poisoned by a weird belief in the anti-pickup truck crowd that if they see a truck without anything in the bed once or twice, it must never have anything in the bed. So I'd ask the crowd: how many times a year do you need to use your truck for truck things before you are "allowed" to own a truck?

Personally: I have a distaste for anyone who doesn't use the things they own. I have an American aristocratic horror of things that are "kept nice."

Of course, modern pickups are about as fast as sporty cars of the past: a V8 F150 in 2025 gets to 60 in about the same amount of time as a V8 Mustang from 1995. They're not exactly slow, they cruise at highway speeds and pull out no problem.

Can confirm. I've rented pickup trucks for cross-state drives, and when they're hauling nothing and you shift them into "sport" mode, they accelerate effortlessly and will blow doors on most other vehicles that aren't trucks or sports cars.

And since muscle cars are functionally illegal these days, a truck with a giant engine is arguably the only way you can GET that 'performance' for an affordable price.

But you have to be fair and also include repair costs in the delta between owning an efficient sedan vs. a big ol' truck.

That's the big reason I'd prefer to rent them for now rather than own.

But you have to be fair and also include repair costs in the delta between owning an efficient sedan vs. a big ol' truck.

Are these significantly different over the lifetime of a like-for-like comparison? Does a Tacoma or Tundra have that much higher costs than a Rav4 or Camry?

I don't think that has been my experience where usage is similar.

Well just an example:

A set of Tacoma tires will set you back $500-700, compared to a set of Camry Tires being $320 on the high end.

That's pretty marginal though, unless you're getting lots of tire punctures.

This Source puts the maintenance costs for a Tacoma at $6,731 for the first ten years (most of that almost certainly after the first five, and a Camry at $4,455. So you're spending a least a few hundred extra bucks a year on average, on top of the up front costs.

On the full list, large pickups are listed as the most expensive for maintain, almost all of them requiring over $10k over the first 10 years.

Whether that is all worth it for the cargo capacity, towing, or extra performance, well, I dunno.

I think if I had my choice, I'd own both a smaller electric car for local commutes and have a mid-size pickup for long haul drives or moving cargo around.

Less than $3,000 over ten years on a $30,000-50,000 purchase is fairly unimportant. If you can't afford the maintenance on your Tacoma, it's unlikely that the extra $3k over ten years would save you.

Whether that is all worth it for the cargo capacity, towing, or extra performance, well, I dunno.

It all comes down to style. People buy a car primarily for what they want to look like, not for what they need or want to do. You can tell, because minivans are a tiny segment of the market these days.

I think if I had my choice, I'd own both a smaller electric car for local commutes and have a mid-size pickup for long haul drives or moving cargo around.

I've always been in a weird place with cars, I've always had multiple vehicles available to me. Having a truck available is the best, driving one everywhere all the time less so.

People buy a car primarily for what they want to look like, not for what they need or want to do.

Probably.

But I'd bet a lot are getting in over their heads on payments up front, which is starting to show up in delinquency rates.

I think some people are just not good with money and they buy cars that make them look good but I really don't know how to translate the status and affirmation points having a really nice car gets you, into a dollar amount.

I've only ever driven Honda or Toyota for the last 15 years since their engines cannot be killed by conventional means and I do NOT like large unexpected expenses from my vehicles.

I definitely don't need to tow or tote stuff around on a regular basis, and its pretty trivial to rent a truck for a while for when I do, so it never made sense for me to buy a truck when I have other things I'd rather do with the spare money.

But I'd bet a lot are getting in over their heads on payments up front, which is starting to show up in delinquency rates.

I think some people are just not good with money and they buy cars that make them look good but I really don't know how to translate the status and affirmation points having a really nice car gets you, into a dollar amount.

Absolutely, but this is a general financial intelligence/literacy/freedom of choice question, not one specific to pickup trucks. From long experience of trying to explain to Red-Tribe Pickup-Truck-Shoppers in my immediate circle that they don't need to spend all that money, they aren't cross-shopping with a Toyota Corolla or even a Rav4. If they didn't blow $50,000 they didn't have on a pickup, they would blow it on a Land Cruiser, or a Mercedes E Class, or a tarted out Jeep Wrangler. "Why do Americans like pickup trucks?" is mostly a separate question from "Why do Americans go into too much debt to buy vehicles they can't afford on loans that will bankrupt them?" The former is about the traits of the pickup truck, the latter is about the traits and cultural choices of individual Americans.

Or, generally, we can ask "Why do companies like Dodge Nissan and Land Rover continue to exist when they consistently sell inferior products?"

I'm considering getting a truck as my next vehicle (currently have a crossover) because there have been a handful of times in the last year when it would have been convenient for moving bulky items. It would also open up a new world of possibilities - I could get into several different (manly) hobbies if I had the means to pick up the materials needed at my convenience (e.g. woodworking).

From my point of view, it seems to represent blue-collar working-man masculinity for most people who have them. The point is to signal that you’re a hard working man’s man. Most of the drivers are actually urban professionals of one type or another, at least where I am, most actual contractors use minivans.

Vans or, it must be pointed out, it's pretty darn common for a pickup truck to have one of those pop-up covers (some of them extremely stock or permanent-looking). I'd say the actual contractors get a nice cover more often than a van, especially if it doubles as a personal vehicle. True minivans are basically reserved for secondhand purchases by the illegal immigrant.

I've never seen a minivan on a jobsite here (working on new-built commercial/industrial buildings). It's all either pickup trucks or full-sized vans.

Full-size vans dominate minivans on UK worksites too.

I'm on the boarder of the midwest/upper south, so there are some hispanics here but not a large fraction of the population. Pickup trucks, however, are extremely common and popular. Some of them are work trucks, though vans are more common as actual work vehicles. The overwhelming majority of pickup trucks on the road here (I'd estimate 80%+) are single passenger commuter vehicles. 99% of their drive time is to carry their driver to and from their job that doesn't require a truck at all, or running errands. Nothing has ever been, nor will ever be, transported in the (tiny) beds, which generally have a hard cover of some type so they don't need cleaned. Many of them boast considerable off-road capabilities yet will never have a single tire touch dirt, short of occasionally hopping a curb to get out of a small driveway or parking lot. All of my neighbors, the men anyway, drive one of these as their primary vehicle. If they do find themselves actually needing to haul something, the more well off actually buy a second, usually older, truck to use for that, or they have a trailer. Trailers are very common and popular; nothing really fits in the beds of these trucks anyway. They are essentially lifted SUVs with enormous engines with the rear storage area converted into a semblance of a truck bed that is never used. Decades ago this same demo (their parents and grandparents) would have driven Lincolns and Cadillac sedans. The interiors of these trucks often have the same luxury options as the current Lincoln/Caddy offerings. More offroad vehicles like jeeps and hummers are also popular with the younger men. These are slightly more likely to be used for their ostensible purpose, especially if they've aftermarket alterations, but I'd guess at least 50% of these vehicles are also single passenger commuter vehicles. The locals who are fans of offroading/mudding disparagingly refer to both types of vehicles as pavement princesses or mall prowlers. As mentioned down thread, all of these commuter trucks are in impeccable condition, regularly washed and kept away from any scenarios that might scratch or ding them in any way.

As to the question why? They are men, and men drive trucks. There isn't much more introspection than that. A non-trivial amount of women use pickups as their primary commuter vehicle too, but they also tend to prefer jeeps, or the jeep pickup, which I'm seeing more of, or just regular giant SUVs. Many of the wives of the men who own the giant commuter trucks near by me have nearly identical black Cadillac Escalades with the silver trim. I have a Lincoln Navigator personally, I think Ford makes better vehicles, at least right now. I also have a Nissan pick up that is used as a farm truck mostly, and looks like it.

I see tons of pickups in my blue/Hispanic area in absolute mint condition and empty beds. Fairly often they drive around with tow mirrors extended despite not towing anything. Sometimes you even see "duallies" (trucks with four wheels on the rear axle) in similar pristine condition. Hispanic landscapers drive beat to shit Ford trucks.

Does anyone have a sense of why Americans choose pickups over other big-ass form factors?

I think in my area, suburban office workers are alienated from anything to do with manipulating the physical world rather than symbols and feel that a very large and expensive truck connects them in some way to rugged manual labor.

I have no answers to offer, but I can tell you that the Thai are just as obsessed with pickup trucks. Half the cars I saw on the road were one variant or another, and they rarely seemed to be used for their nominal purpose. Thankfully, much like the people, they were on average much smaller than American pickup trucks.

Work vans are far more common than work pickups in the USA. ‘White van man’ is not a usual American phrase, but everyone here understands what it means. The reason is obvious- it’s harder to break into the back of a van than a pickup bed.

Pickup trucks are the single most common vehicle in red/hispanic areas. It comes off as masculine and respectable(some form factor of success, maturity, decent behavior) for cultural reasons. Remember the American concept of masculinity, even upper class masculinity, is much bigger on ‘can personally go and do work’ than in the old country and utilitarian-but-not-really pickups make sense in that mold.

This is a bit regional -- pickups are more common for rural tradesman than urban -- partly maybe for high/low trust society reasons as you touch on, but also decreased feasibility of having materials delivered to the jobsite leading to an actual need to, uh, pick things up yourself.

In my experience (southeastern US) it depends on the trade. Plumbers and HVAC guys tend to run in vans while construction guys tend to run pickups.

During my brief membership in the white pickup mafia (I was a service/install technician for draft beer systems.) I drove a quad cab Chevy Colorado with a bed cover. Most of what I did could be accomplished with a van, but I occasionally hauled large refrigeration units (glycol chillers) that wouldn't easily fit in one. It was also nice to carry dirty/smelly equipment in the bed instead of the cab.

I'm not a truck guy, but I was honestly impressed with that Colorado (aside from. It was faster than it needed to be (300HP V6), nice for a base-trim vehicle (power windows/locks, excellent AC and stereo), and got decent fuel economy (21 MPG mixed and 24-27 MPG highway) while being easy enough to park (Backup camera is a lifesaver here.).

The external bed of a pickup truck is also easier to clean than the inside of a van, so you can haul dirty things that you might not want inside your van (cans of gas for your lawn implements, deer carcasses, brush) and hose it out when you're done.

This is prompted by [this Matt Yglesias post] talking about abundance politics

You forgot to add the link.

Thanks, fixed.

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