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Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

All that being said, when you're running a political organization in the current era you cannot say the things they said and expect those logs not to be leaked. I think having some cooth goes a long way, even in today's world.

Why? This was probably the first all male inclusive space (or so they thought) that they'd ever experienced. They'd been denied any third space to be boys their entire lives.

I mean, you aren't wrong, but also, what you expect is impossible in context.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

This storm in a teacup seems to be getting more juicy/spicy, since rumours are swirling. Milo (yes, 'tis he) is claiming that the leaker was Gavin Wax who co-operated with Politico (in a way that frankly reminds me of the guy who pointed Cade Metz at Scott and fed him tidbits as part of his axe-grinding with the Rationalists).

Is this the result of internal power-struggles or in-fighting, and Wax is trying to destroy a particular opponent/rival? Has anyone got the inside scoop on this? If this is all a catfight over person or persons trying to get into the inner circle/back in/kick the other guy out, it becomes way more interesting than "bunch of idiot college kids do idiot stuff" (because the kind of people who join The Young Whatever Party groups in college, no matter what country, tend to be a particular type who are both politics wonks and politically ambitious, hoping to parlay involvement in such groups into some sort of political career, and nobody else gives a damn. See William Hague).

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

I am so profoundly glad I had my teens and 20-somethings before the age of, whatever this is. We had ICQ, AOL IM, irc, and to the best of my knowledge none of this was really permanent? Logs were all stored locally, if you missed something in irc, you just missed it. It was all far more ephemeral by nature.

I'm especially glad there are no recording of what went on at LAN parties even into our 20's. Or the insane conversations we had at college. Or the things we said drunk post college. Or the chauvinistic things we joked about when we started having some success with women.

Same. I said a lot of things as a teen and in my early 20s that I would deeply regret if they had been made permanent online. Thank goodness social media, and more importantly Twitter, wasn't a thing when I was most stupid.

My observation of young, confident males is that they are often disagreeable by their nature. The most hilarious thing in the world to me when I was young was watching one of my friends do or say something absurd that either straddled or blatantly crossed the line of what was considered acceptable to decent people. CKY (and then Jackass) had some of the funniest things I'd ever seen on video. I wasn't nearly as wild as some of the people I was acquainted with, but I would laugh very hard at the wild things they did. The incentive to be edgy in young male social circles is pretty high. All that being said, when you're running a political organization in the current era you cannot say the things they said and expect those logs not to be leaked. I think having some cooth goes a long way, even in today's world.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

However, some Republicans in high places don't seem to view it as a major deal. Such as JD Vance, whose only comment is to call it "pearl clutching"

This'll teach me to read the linked text (particularly ironic because I'm bullish on 'go back to the sources'). Vance had a leetle more to the comment than just "this is pearl clutching" (so ignore it); he was contrasting it with the guy who was talking about hoping Jennifer Gilbert's children would die:

This is far worse than anything said in a college group chat, and the guy who said it could become the AG of Virginia. I refuse to join the pearl clutching when powerful people call for political violence.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

If you're really curious about what I think about actually supporting actual Hitler, than I'm against it and don't find it acceptable, but the point is you don't get to tell me what constitutes supporting Hitler.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Was there any actual support for Hitler? The single quote appears to be, as per the context The_Nybbler provided, a reducto ad absurdum joke.

Obviously, if the only "support" in this entire leak is that line, then you'll join us in condemning Politco for being disingenuous scumbags, right?

But yes, for the record, actual neonazis are contemptible retards. Also for the record, this includes affiliates and allies like Hamas and the young Democrats who support them :)

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

TBH (without having read Griffin's book) I've always wondered if "palingenetic" is superfluous here. I mean, the fascist movements we do know have had the palingenetic element (and it doesn't really affect the question of whether Trump's a fascist or not since the palingenetic element is obvious down to the MAGA slogan), as one could imagine a fascist movement built on the basis of "our nation has never been particularly great or important, but we are going to be great in the future".

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

(1) Bunch of twenty-somethings are idiots (2) This includes edgelord stuff like making jokes about Hitler and other topics deemed "should not be joked about" (3) Whatever really was said in the thread remains to be determined

Also, is "to cow before Trump" a direct quote or just the people writing this article being illiterate? "To cower before" makes sense, as does "to kowtow to/before". This is what happens when you let AI write your article for you! Or be too young to know how to English properly, if it's direct Young Republican quote.

(How did Politico obtain the leaked thread, I wonder?)

Yeah, if it's genuine, it ranks between "young idiot guys need a slap upside the head" and "if old enough to know better/comments are genuinely bad and not just white guy saying 'nigga' as though he's a rapper, heads must roll".

EDIT: Thank you, TheMotte, for permitting me to post a slur like "nigga" and not force me to use a dash as though this was the 18th century or I were writing for Politico, though I guess that makes me as reprehensible as a Young Republican 😁

William Hendrix, the Kansas Young Republicans’ vice chair, used the words “n--ga” and “n--guh,” variations of a racial slur, more than a dozen times in the chat.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

I googled myself in 2009 when I was a senior in highschool and the fourth result that came up was me on a Facebook post saying that a movie was stupid. In a group that I thought was private.

That was when I scrubbed what I could of old posts from Facebook and elsewhere that had my name attached. I started using reddit more instead to comment. But even on reddit I had it in the back of my mind that my username might be linked to my real name at some point.

Something in society has been damaged from everyone living in the panopticon. I don't even know what it is, because it has been this way my entire adult life. I do know that the way most people cope is by making the private spaces as different as they can.

Anyone leaking private space conversations is always the asshole. I try not to change my opinion of the victim of the leak, but that's not always doable.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

That's a good argument. The only counterargument I have is Putin having already made stupid decisions in 2014 and 2022. I have consistently failed to model his thought processes, so if I agree it's contrary to the interests of the Kremlin it doesn't mean he won't think it's worth doing either.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Yeah, I'm going to need anyone leaning left to rank these comments on a scale of "I want to shoot you in the head and watch your children die in your wife's arms".

Have you not been paying attention?

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

After the lefty reaction to the Kirk assassination I absolutely don't care about this, and will never care about anything like this from my own side ever again. OP wildly overestimates the number of fucks the right has left to give.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

I think this is a different argument from the typical "words are violence". This seems to come from the libertarian view that "government is [a monopoly on] violence", and ultimately that all laws the legislators craft are enforced at the threat of violence. You do something that sounds banal like banning the sale of "loosie" individual cigarettes to enforce tax laws and maybe wave hands about "public health", and ultimately if some of the populace resists this seemingly-nonviolent policy, your enforcers will end up killing them. I doubt there's a single law of the state for which sufficiently determined noncompliance won't end with physical violence.

That said, while I think the libertarians have a mostly-self-coherent ethical view (which is more than many can say), I think some level of civilization is worth the trade off in terms of absolute freedoms.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Obligatory warning against arguing from fictional evidence (though I can't remember where I first saw this warning), but this definition from an alternate-history author who presumably has done some research into the topic may be relevant.

Between January and June of 1929, the CAUR [Comitati d'Azione per l'Universalità di Roma, Action Committees for the University of Rome, led by Eugenio Coselschi at the direction of Mussolini] worked on three separate goals: a universal definition of fascism, an aim later picked up at the Conference of Montreux in 1929 and 1930; to identify the criteria that an organization must fulfill in order to qualify as truly "fascist"; and, finally, to lay the groundwork for the Conference, to be held in December of that year. The first major obstacle, that of creating a proper and official definition of fascism, proved to be particularly troublesome and ultimately led to rather loose criteria's being used for the first conference, which was opened to all who had "their spirits oriented toward the principles of a political, economic, and social renovation based on the concepts of the hierarchy of the state and collaboration between the classes". In practical terms, this meant using criteria such as adherence to anti-communist ideals, the principle of "National Revolution", and corporatism, which was in itself loosely defined and allowed for the potential inclusion of any conservative or rightist groups—and, indeed, regimes that were "merely" corporatist.

In this work of fiction, there later is a schism between Nazism and fascism proper.

Amongst the declarations made at Montreux the day following the walkout [from the 1934 Montreux Conference of the NSDAP and its allies], of particular importance was that of Eugenio Coselschi, who in his capacity as Chairman of the Fascist International declared Hitler and Nazi Racism as dissidents who "yesterday opposed Christian Civilization, today Latin Civilization, and tomorrow human civilization itself". Furthermore, a formal declaration was made proclaiming that the International "rejected any materialistic concept which exalts the exclusive domination of one race above others".

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

A fair amount of those actually aghast about this stuff consists of old Republicans (the sort of figures that would be called "GOPe", though they're not really the establishment any more), with many libs/leftists more in the exasperated "Yes, of course they're saying that stuff, have you not been playing attention?" mode.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

From what I've seen of the jokes, I couldn't help but be taken aback by how completely run-of-the-mill banal these would have been coming out of the mouths of standard issue blue tribe liberal progressive young adults in the 90s-00s with some equivalent nouns swapped around (or perhaps not, depending on how edgy they wanted to be), as someone who was one of those in that time. I feel like it exemplifies better than almost any single event I've seen recently of how much of the blue establishment and the Democratic party has taken on the role of the excoriating church lady, and as much as I hate the "[side] pounces" meme, this fits "Democrats pounce" to a tee. 2028 is still a ways away, but Vance's response is the one thing here that makes me slightly more optimistic about that, since he's probably the front runner to win that election right now.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

That's the kind of thing that sounds good in theory but has at least two major issues I can think of in practice:

  1. Geographically/logistically I'm not sure how it would work. Would it be just maintaining the status quo in the west bank but on a village by village basis giving the entire village citizenship? I don't have a good mental model of how the handover of administration from PA to Israel would work, I also suspect the PA would just... Not be pleased to be doing that handover.
  2. Peaceful Palestinians are at risk of getting lynched by their less peaceful compatriots. If I write that coexistence event thing as a separate post I'll address it in more depth but we couldn't take pictures of any Palestianians attending in case they got murdered as traitors. I don't really know how high the risk of this is — presumably non-zero or we wouldn't have been given those instructions — but I do know that generally if a Palestinian talks too much about maybe coexisting with Israel you'll get a lot of public disavowals, his family saying he's a disgrace to the family and they don't agree with him, etc. There's a lot of pressure to toe the line and that pressure it not just social/verbal.

On the other hand, perhaps if approached on a clan-by-clan level it could be doable? That's not really very different from village-by-village (because a clan usually stays close together anyway). This is the kind of thing where it would help if I had better knowledge of clan politics, but all I know about it is things I absorb second hand from coworkers etc. Maybe I'll ask my husband later, he's active in hebrew-arabic language exchange groups and might have a better idea.

Anyway basically: I don't think the majority of Israelis would be opposed but that doesn't make it a feasible solution. Maybe someday though, if things develop in a promising direction.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

A parliametary committee crafting legislation isn't violence any more than a crime boss saying "And anyone but us starts dealing drugs north of Third Street, you put them in the hospital". Nor any less.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

At least some of the “praise for hitler” was mocking their own side/base for being far right.

I don't think it was even that, it was a straight up joke.

AD: "He did say 'My delegates I bring will vote for the most right wing person'"

PG: "Great. I love Hitler"

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

absolutely correct that the leak of this groupchat is lame pointscoring at its worst and in fact reinforces the notion that leftists are hypocritical scolds (we can celebrate charlie kirk getting capped but nono words are proof of the Bad Nazi!)

"I love Hitler" seems about as literal Nazi as possible. If that is not "proof of Bad Nazi" to you, what is?

And it's not just "leftists", the Republican governor of Vermont has also joined in condemning the group chat. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/5556112-vermont-gov-scott-calls-state-senator-resign-gop-group-chat/

Or maybe the group chat's commentary about the pressure they feel to never publicly disagree with the leader or else they get labeled RINOs is true, and "leftists" just includes Governor Scott and Elise Stefanik as exiles who spoke up against the tribe.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

The question is whether you are particupating in the "who whom" yourself.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

I join the chorus of condemnations for Hanania and anyone else lowly and contemptible enough to invite him to a private group chat.

Well since you're a fan of throwing out condemnations, I notice there is one thing you didn't condemn. The support of Hitler mentioned in the article.

Why is Hanania deserving of condemning but not neonazism? I don't want to assume you're a neonazi then, but "Hanania bad and needs condemning, neonazism ok don't condemn it" suggests that.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Has the definition of woke gone so far as to cover "Being against the love of Hitler"? If that's the case, the pendulum is going to start swinging back into "woke" pretty quickly given how most of the US do not support the Nazis.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Don't care, and this is also a false equivalence. To the best of my knowledge, nobody was fired because of things they said about Charlie Kirk in leaked private messages. They were fired because they were in positions of trust (teacher, doctor, etc), and they posted horrific things endorsing his assassination publicly and proudly under their full name. These are not the same thing, don't pretend they are, I'm not playing along.

But that's how these arguments always go. Jay Jones wasn't directly telling his political opponents over SMS and then a phone call that they deserve to die, something which if I'd done would have been a terroristic threat, it was a "leaked private conversation" and a "joke". No, it fucking wasn't, and also, that's exactly what these Young Republicans are getting fired for.

I said before, when teachers were getting fired because nobody wants psychos like that teaching their children, that the left wasn't upset that the right were hypocrites, they were upset that the rules they thought were meant only for them were being used by others. Then Jimmy Kimmel was back on TV after blood libeling his political opponents, and people pretended cancel culture had been defeated.

I don't know how many times this needs to happen before people stop pretending the defectbots will never stop smashing defect.

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 13, 2025

Taking Eco's definition

This thing was invented by Eco because he was seething at Silvio Berlusconi's electoral victory and came up with the broadest possible definition of Fascism that would include his party. That's all it is, not a deep reflection of an intellectual on the nature of fascism but a knee-jerk reaction to an italian political party from the 90s.