domain:streamable.com
daguerrean
19hr ago
Ok, since many people are raising more or less identical objections I will summarize the basis of my views in response to my own comment so I don’t have to reply with the same to everyone.
I think the following two things are fundamentally reasonable and acceptable.
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I believe it is reasonable to demand a dog perform a job for you in exchange for food and shelter. I do not believe dogs are entitled to human servitude by virtue of being cute.
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I believe it is reasonable to use physical punishment on a dog even if it is not the most optimal or effective training method.
Obviously these things can be carried to extremes and become abusive. I judge by levels of pain generally accepted for things like spanking a child, which is roughly on par with a common shock collar. When judging a situation like this I look at it and ask, is there any evidence the dog is pervasively unwell? I don’t see it. Is he applying the punishment constantly, excessively or gratuitously? I don’t see it. Is the job asked of the dog fundamentally deranged or evil according to my values (such as sexual services)? No. Okay then, carry on
SnapDragon
19hr ago
I'm not a professional mathematician, but I occasionally dabble, and I've gotten some help from GPT5 lately. Not in the vein of "here's a bunch of papers, now solve the problem for me", but rather as an extremely advanced robotic cyberduck that I can bounce ideas off and get some intelligent critique back. It also wrote code for me to test a few ideas, much much faster than I could myself (and I'm a very fast coder). When the speed of being able to write a quick script passes a certain threshold, I feel like there's kind of a state change in how you're willing to approach a problem. Instead of "I wonder if X is true", you can just ask "hey, is X true?" and have the answer in 30 seconds with little mental effort.
It's not a replacement for human thought (yet) - I am absolutely the one driving and I need to correct its mistakes. But I love it as a research assistant. BTW, here's a transcript so you can see what I'm talking about. And this is just me dabbling with a chatbot - I'm sure that, with some effort, skilled professionals can find better ways to incorporate an LLM into their workflow. (Though unskilled professionals are not going to be "fixed" by LLMs.) I think it's just going to take some patience and some experimentation.
I'm also looking forward to when publicly accessible models catch up to the state of the art models that aced the IMO and ICPC recently. There's some secret sauce in what they're doing (being able to pick a good solution out of many proposals), and we don't have access yet. I helped write the ICPC Finals contest, and I can attest that there were some VERY tough problems on it. Problem C (which I wrote) wasn't solved by any human competitors, but both models figured out the most elegant solution to it without much effort - DeepMind's press release included a description of Gemini's solution.
I presume the compute used for this was pretty costly, but the costs will inevitably fall, so at some point you'll be able to have a personal chatbot that's simply better at solving math problems than you are. At that point, it seems hard to believe that you won't be able to find SOME use for it at your job...?
sun_the_second
could survive a COD lobby and a gay furry discord server
19hr ago
Maybe in the early days of idpol the white skin enjoyers were against Japanese but now it looks as if it got a big injection of "le based feminine Asian waifu" people. Either way, it's going to be the kind of people who complain that, checks list, Ghost of Yotei's protagonist does not look like a jade beauty, or Aphrodite's cheekbones too sharp 3/10, and I think that kind of grievance is retarded and annoying, and the grievance of those who want token rep of every ethnicity, gender and disability under the sun is also retarded and annoying.
Just make characters with character. Supergiants' Hestia has character, Asian Hestia doesn't, at a glance.
Capital_Room
rather dementor-like
19hr ago
The answer the "Traditionalist" view, which I've outlined above, gives to these questions is perhaps best exemplified in comments by Fox News talking head Tomi Lahren, as covered in this Shoe0nHead video, particularly the bit she said on Piers Morgan's show, on the topic of what women owe men in return for their efforts (at about 15:17 in the linked video):
Tomi Lahren: And as a woman, I want a strong man who is a protector and a provider; that will go to war if need be; that will protect me, protect my family; make money.
But I don't think a man needs to "get something out of it" to be a manly man, a protector and a provider. If you think you—
Andrew Wilson [over her]: So, nothing. So you've got nothing.
Lahren: —need to get something out of it, I, quite frankly, don't consider you a real man.
It is your born duty as a male to work, suffer, and sacrifice for women, children, and society with absolutely no expectation of reward for it, simply because it's part of being a man, and if you don't do it, you're not a man.
In asserting this duty, Western traditions will tend to emphasize it being the will of God, or some such; East Asian ones will tend to put a bit more emphasis on owing it to the spirits of your ancestors. But in the end, they all reject the liberal/libertarian "pure individual," atomized and unbound by any obligation or duty not freely chosen. Instead, you are born in a particular place, a particular time, to a particular family, in a particular class, a particular nation, and, yes, with a particular sex. This unchosen role into which you are born comes with equally-unchosen duties and obligations to which one is bound. (Like the "filial piety" owed to your parents — even if you didn't choose them, and didn't choose to be born — recognized by pretty much every culture save the Modern West. Note, after all, that the first of the Ten Commandments involving one's duties to fellow human beings, as opposed to the earlier commandments covering one's duties to God and the sacred, is "honor thy father and thy mother.")
Loquat
19hr ago
Anecdotal evidence, of course, but in my neighborhood multiple houses have them and they work quite well. Maybe this is one of those situations where you really need to teach the dog about the invisi-fence rather than just installing it and assuming the dog will react the way you want, so it'll work well for the conscientious owner and poorly for the lazy owner.
Well the proof is in the pudding. Is the dog able to stay in the designated area for the required time and only requires rare and mild punishment (as evidenced by this being the first time anyone has seen him shock his dog)? Then the observable evidence would seem to indicate this is not inordinately painful for his dog’s specific inclination and temperament. I agree that if he was shocking it every few minutes to maintain compliance then obviously he is either asking too much of the dog, or is unnecessarily cruel. But a shock that is only necessitated perhaps once a day seems to evince that the dog is not unduly burdened by compliance with its job
Fruck
Lacks all conviction
19hr ago
That's a pretty good argument, but I can't shake the feeling that there is something deeper to your complaint. There is an undercurrent of resentment to your position that twists the perspective you are arguing, not necessarily in your case, although that isn't to rule it out. In particular -
TIL the word for "basically white, or close enough that dark skin-fearing consumers won't raise a fuss".
Is an ironic inversion of the argument against mukokuseki in the early days of the idpol ascension, which was that mukokuseki was the word for 'Japanese but not so Japanese it upsets white people.' Either way it's white supremacy?
Fruck
Lacks all conviction
19hr ago
God damn, that was a great read. And Eisenman made some good arguments - I wish the current proponents of his cosmology argued so well. It is depressing to realise that Alexander, despite by the sounds of it representing the majority opinion, essentially lost, though.
Corvos
19hr ago
Historically perhaps a dog might be gored by a boar while forced to participate in hunts.
That's kind of the point, though. Dogs weren't forced to participate in hunts. They do it themselves, they love it. Depending on the breed, they were bred to do it almost compulsively. Stopping a dog chasing things is hard, that's why you have to keep them on a leash in the park.
Whereas any dog breeds that are not lapdogs have immense difficulty staying still. According to https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/mastiff/ a mastiff has middling energy levels i.e. is not a lap dog, and almost certainly finds it very difficult to stay still for lengthy periods.
sun_the_second
could survive a COD lobby and a gay furry discord server
19hr ago
You don't need to get almost all. You just need to make it clear that any one of them can go to the slammer for doing the wrong thing on the public internet. That shouldn't be hard. People go to jail for CP and doxxing is inherently easier to catch.
Hoffmeister25
American Bukelismo Enthusiast
20hr ago
Your link goes to a removed Reddit post.
Corvos
20hr ago
It means 'stateless', i.e. not drawn to have a specific ethnicity.
One reason that Japanese stuff is so popular at the moment is that it's almost completely separate from American politics. The Japanese aren't just not woke, they aren't not-woke. They just draw girls like that because they think it's cute.
thejdizzler
20hr ago
Wow what a surprising turn of events. I wish the best of luck! I converted to catholicism almost three years ago now, and I have let my theological doubts get the better of me, and haven't been to church since February. My godfather did call me last night out of the blue to let me know that he and my godmother are having a second child, which did briefly remind me why I joined the church in the first place (same with a wedding I attended a few weeks ago). Unfortunately, mass seems to continue to be very spiritually empty for me, and a lot of the apparent benefits of the church (spouse, community) haven't been very prominent in my parish recently.
If local governments aren’t actually compelled to provide aid, then they don’t have to run the investigation. They don’t have to provide riot police, or give access to every city building. I have a hard time squaring that with the absolute vitriol getting thrown their way.
They also don't have to actively oppose to the limit of the laws / rules that would make further active opposition outright illegal. They certainly do not have to proactively create new laws / rules that make it actively illegal for other people to voluntarily provide aid, with all the coercive implications that has.
If you have a hard time squaring not providing aid with the amount of vitriol involved, it's probably because you are presenting the civil administrations involved as trying to be studiously if oppositionally neutral and not support something they dislike, but not taking action beyond that. This false caveat would naturally confuse someone. It is true sanctuary cities and states do not have to support ICE. It is also (probably) true that your neighborhood homeowner association does not have to support your child's club activities or birthday parties. You would not be confused as to their neutrality if the HOA threatened nuisance fines against any of your neighbors who attended your child's parties except to the degree that it was required by superseding city ordinance.
The antagonism that is going towards sanctuary cities like Chicago is not because of what they are not doing, but because of what they are doing, and using their own available power to coerce others into going along with.
daguerrean
20hr ago
Of course the dog has no understanding of acting, but that’s irrelevant. The misery is not pointless, presumably it increases the entertainment of his stream (I have no idea, I’m just assuming this is his motivation). The dog is presumably disinclined to sit still for hours at a time, but so what? I’m disinclined to sit at my computer coding for hours but tough shit, that’s what my employer wants. A blind guide dog accompanying a student to class has to sit still for the duration of the class, tough shit. Dogs having jobs is perfectly normal and in the grand scheme of things neither this job nor his training method seem inordinately cruel. Historically perhaps a dog might be gored by a boar while forced to participate in hunts.
SophisticatedHillbilly
20hr ago
I wonder to what extent just decriminalizing minor physical violence would help. Like you look back to the 30s/40s and it seems like a low level of pervasive physical violence was normal. Guys get mad at eachother, fight it out, all is well (unless someone suffers a horrible permanent injury, which did happen).
Commonplace martial arts etc might do it well enough but I do feel part of the desire/need is the need to be unconstrained by a boss/teacher/parent/state/wife. Those adventures were vital for my own development and I think if I grew up where I live now (generic mid-sized US city) then I would never have gotten that taste of freedom. That unsupervised part is just as important as the physicality I think
benmmurphy
20hr ago
In the UK there has been a push to pass law to ban conversion therapy but I think there was some trouble because people were worried that if someone talked to someone about gender dysphoria then that could be considered conversion therapy. Unless the law explicitly bans only conversation therapy in 'bad' directions then there is always a risk that a person doing conversion therapy in a 'good' direction will become a victim of the law. Baroness Burt the sponsor of the bill had this to say:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/LLN-2024-0004/LLN-2024-0004.pdf
Of course, it’s important to differentiate between psychological practice or religious advice and conversion therapy. A therapist, for example, who is exploring gender dysphoria with a young person in good faith—with no predetermined goal to change how that young person ought to be—shouldn’t be penalised. That’s why my bill would require the police to demonstrate both action and motivation when attempting to prosecute in relation to this offence.
Walterodim
Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t
20hr ago
I don’t see why “actor” is a less valid vocation for a dog than any of the other myriad tasks we have forced them to do through the years.
It is legitimately impossible for me to believe that this is a sincerely held belief. The dog has no capacity to understand the role of an "actor", this is merely being subject to pointless misery for its entire life. It really seems like you're just trying too hard to lean into how lame it is that people care about dogs.
daguerrean
20hr ago
The animal did something wrong though, it strayed from the desired position necessary for the stream. I don’t see why “actor” is a less valid vocation for a dog than any of the other myriad tasks we have forced them to do through the years. Being forced to stay in a given location for a stream seems quite similar to dogs assigned to guard a certain area, which are often chained for the purpose, and this seems like a much more luxurious assignment than a junkyard.
Walterodim
Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t
20hr ago
Yes, many cultures are inferior to Western culture in ways that seem obvious to me. I'm glad we're Western and I want Piker held to Western standards. If he wants to be held to third-world standards, there are many options for him.
Walterodim
Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t
20hr ago
...a dog can find satisfaction in when it knows it is doing its job well.
Some dogs can, but this is highly dependent on the breed. I don't know enough about this breed to comment on the plausibility of it accepting such a role, but this would be cruel for any active breed with high drive. An Australian Shepherd is simply not going to understand the idea that it's tasked with sitting still, it will be frustrated by this life. Piker aside, people should put more thought into what they hope to get from animals that have had selective breeding that has engrained behavior so deeply that it borders on neuroses.
ThomasdelVasto
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου
20hr ago
Congratulations on finding a faith my friend. I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy a few years back myself, though I had more direct religious experience than you share here. Of course, as you probably know, it can often be hard to put into words the way God speaks to us.
I hope things work out for you, and I encourage you to be honest about this with your priest or whatever the Mormon equivalent is. Before coming in I wrestled with my faith and belief quite a bit, and continue to. It's a normal process for intelligent religious people in the modern world, and I wish I had known that during my atheist years.
I'm curious to see how this may change certain political stances or perhaps cultural stances you've espoused here in the past. One of my friends always says, Christ demands that we sacrifice our cynicism. Which has been true for me!
Walterodim
Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t
20hr ago
No, he's guilty of pointless cruelty directed at an animal that did nothing wrong. It's flatly evil.
The discipline of children is an excellent comparison. There's nothing wrong with the training tool in and of itself, but inflicted on a child for no real reason with no reasonable end goal, it's simply abuse. A man shocking a dog or hitting a child for not instantly complying with his pointless whims is a sinister individual.
I sometimes wonder whether a low skill floor version of Eve would be a good outlet for NEETs who end up on some sort of UBI.
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