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Quantumfreakonomics
21hr ago
They were BULGARIANS? I can't stop laughing. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Everyone's all like, "Migrants huh? We know what these Pakis are all about," and then it turns out it was a Bulgarian couple. Bring back @BurdensomeCount, we deserve the effortpost about white-on-white crime.
4nji2
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
21hr ago
From the beginning, both /r/Scotland and /r/Dundee expressed skepticism toward the popular Twitter narrative. Y
Local reddits skew crazy to left, compared to actual inhabitants of those territories. If one read, to use an example I know the most about, /r/europe, one would think that the centre right party (EPP) got every single vote by cheating, as not a single person supports them. Meanwhile, one would think that Volt party, whose main policy is much closer integration, only fails because the elections are stolen from them, given how popular it is among the people.
Reddits suffer from selection bias: /r/europe is not populated by Europeans who happened to find reddit, but by redditors who happen to be European. Ceteris paribus for other reddits. Thus imagine the average /r/politics poster, who happens to be European/Scottish/fan of anime. That is the population of the reddit dedicated to that topic.
The police have issued a statement, and the BBC, in a notably careful choice of words, clarifies: “BBC News understands that officers have found no evidence to substantiate claims being made online the youths were at risk of sexual assault.”
Grooming gangs were covered up, BBC covered up Jimmy Saville.
None of this should be taken to mean I think the truth is that some Indian attempted to rape two whote girls. No, I think if a teen girl is wielding bladed armaments, she is more likely to be similar to violent members of the American underclass in terms of disposition towards other members of society.
HereAndGone
21hr ago
The UK is much nearer to my country than to yours, and the context is not the same. There's more immigration, or at least over a longer period, in Scotland but it's not as much as in England and the environment of underclass whites is enough that they were already stabbing and attacking each other before ever a brown guy showed up.
You tell me what this kid was protecting himself from: threat of rape by a Mongolian immigrant woman, or he went out tooled up to rob at age 14? Already with drug addiction and broken home behind him at that age? And had attempted to rob another woman and produced a knife before this?
This is not Rotherham Part Deux, and you don't understand the social cues and clues that are leading us over here to doubt what is going on. If I said "white trailer trash" it might make it clearer, but even then that's not an exact equivalent.
RobertLiguori
21hr ago
Respectfully, I don't find "Scotland is not England." persuasive in and of itself. Can you elaborate on what factors are present in England that aren't in Scotland that should change our priors in this case?
All I know about Scotland's justice system is the Dankula debacle, which is more than enough for me to default to assuming dishonesty from it. But if there are some moderately high-profile cases of immigrants running into the same kind of tyranny, that would be evidence against the expected racial discrimination and two-tier justice system from the non-US Anglophone world.
I also think that you are poisoning the well big-time with your witchcraft analogy. Witches are not real. Alien rapists given cover by their co-ethnics in positions of power and whites with outgroup bias are extremely real, and until very recently, the common consensus was that they weren't and that only a paranoid racist lunatic would believe they were.
With that being said, I am at least open to the possibility that this was naked unprovoked aggression from our dual-wielder. But to me, the BBC weighing in is not evidence, and neither is the justice system, until I can be shown how this is different than the position we were in with Rotherham ten years ago.
HereAndGone
22hr ago
If someone is carrying around multiple hard to conceal weapons it is indeed very odd, and begs the question of WHY.
Because she's a rancid little slapper who is gearing up to get herself into real trouble and do hard prison time as soon as she's old enough. Believe you me, there's a lot of kids running around with dumb shit like this and it's not to protect themselves from potential rape by brown people. The girl I know who stabbed another young woman in the stomach at a house party was not protecting herself from an immigrant rapist, she was in an environment of drink and drugs and already down the path of petty crime and drug addiction by this time.
Yeah, normal twelve year olds don't run around with knives and hatchets. This is not a normal twelve year old, or at least not normal except for coming from a sink estate.
ABigGuy4U
22hr ago
I suppose nothing I write will convince you otherwise.
No sir. This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
Corvos
22hr ago
You’re welcome. I hope it’s of some use. Keep buggering on, as Churchill used to say.
jkf
22hr ago
Now that I think about it, I think Scott is also screwing with the rules of the PD scenario -- lots of things about it break down when the prisoners are allowed to communicate with each other.
DelendaEst
22hr ago
I think that given that at every turn the british response to real problems has been to lie about them until forced to come clean it is understandable that many will not give credence to the official narrative.
Also, that thread of /r/scotland is not all speaking with one voice, there are plenty of people who DO think this was rapey brown guy, they are just downvoted and at the bottom. This could be evidence that those people are crazy and the majority knows it, or it could be exactly what happens on every reddit thread related to the culture war where the left perspective is upvoted and the right perspective is downvoted and the truth of the matter is secondary to this pattern at best. So calling this conclusive opinion of the locals is not convincing to say the least. Frankly, trying to use a reddit thread to establish general consensus around the left wing view makes me less likely to believe that is the case, as if it were it seems like you could find a better source.
And while I totally agree that little girls carrying blades about is not normal, to me this makes the rapey migrant explaination MORE likely. If someone is carrying around multiple hard to conceal weapons it is indeed very odd, and begs the question of WHY. And given the context of the video the most simple explanation is "because she and/or her sister had been harassed before so she chose to arm herself this time."
You may well be correct, but given the full context I don't think it is fair to call the unconvinced "paranoid".
Payback23
22hr ago
You would think people would have better priors with people uploading videos that are obviously don't show the whole story and painting the person uploading in the best possible light. When it turns out that they were the scumbags the whole time. But I guess the case won't teach some people either.
Payback23
22hr ago
Do you as an adult man have a lot of arguments with 12 year old girls that you don't know?
AvocadoPanic
22hr ago
Thanks for the recommendation.
My library says I should have the ebook in ~2 weeks.
Payback23
22hr ago
No it was a case of a white woman being harassed by blacks in both cases.
Update on the Scottish Dual-Wielding Incident:
The BBC has now published a brief but informative report on the Scottish “dual-wielding” incident, mostly relaying statements from the local police. If you missed the story: a Bulgarian couple, male and female, were approached by local youths in St Ann Lane, Lochee, at about 7:40 pm on Saturday. At some point, an axe made an appearance. The police have issued a statement, and the BBC, in a notably careful choice of words, clarifies: “BBC News understands that officers have found no evidence to substantiate claims being made online the youths were at risk of sexual assault.”
Of course, I have every confidence that some corners of the internet, including select denizens of The Motte, will find this hopelessly unconvincing. If your current epistemic stance is “If she floats, she’s a witch; if she sinks, she’s a witch,” then no combination of facts, logic, or official statements will ever suffice. If your model of the world is that everyone is lying except you and your Telegram group, my ability to shift your priors is probably limited.
Still, let me offer my own semi-informed perspective as someone who is, if not a local, at least more familiar with the Scottish context than your average Redditor. From the beginning, both /r/Scotland and /r/Dundee expressed skepticism toward the popular Twitter narrative. You know the one: a pair of wide-eyed local waifs accosted by a “brown pervert,” who then had no choice but to brandish medieval weaponry in righteous self-defense. You can practically hear the John Williams score.
Now, Scotland is not short on delinquent youth. The British white underclass is, in fact, legendary for its supply of teenage hooligans. Here in Scotland, the local taxonomic label is “ned.” While “non-educated delinquent” is probably a post hoc invention, the behavioral phenotype is easily identified. There is a rich ecosystem of teenagers hanging around bus stops, acting tough, and performing questionable antics. One of their favorite tactics, if challenged, is to shout “pedophile” at the nearest authority figure, thus flipping the script from “annoying brat” to “potential victim.” This tends to work, at least until they age out of the game and (statistically) either get jobs or fall prey to Dundee’s prodigious drug scene.
On the question of weaponry, it bears repeating that it is illegal in Scotland to carry anything that even vaguely resembles a weapon for self-defense. For the Americans in the audience, this is not Texas. Not only is it illegal, it is also, in local context, not normal to walk around with an axe. While I actually find this arrangement not to my libertarian sensibilities, that's neither here nor there. My own priors, which seem to match those of most actual Scots I’ve spoken to, lean toward a more mundane explanation. The girl went out carrying because she wanted to impress her boyfriend, or at least to raise her standing among her peers. She might have been looking for trouble, or simply wanted to show off, and twelve is not too young to have social status games on your mind. Puberty isn’t the only thing that comes early in these parts.
I can only reiterate that an axe is not normal to carry, even if one feels threatened. A pocket knife? I can understand, sure. But this is about as 'extra' as taking a hand-grenade to a seedy pub when you're worried about being roofied.
As for the “migrant crime” angle, I want to point out that Scotland is not England, and certainly not Rotherham. The “migrant problem” is much less pronounced here. Outside Edinburgh or Glasgow, brown skin is still a curiosity, more likely to prompt a friendly question than suspicion. Most of the time, it’s just an excuse for conversation. Scotland has its own problems, but racialized sexual predation is not at the top of the list.
I would like to believe that this clarification settles things, but I am also not naïve. If your epistemic filter is tuned to maximum paranoia, then the absence of evidence is merely further evidence of a cover-up. For everyone else, the police statement, local skepticism, and sociological context should nudge your priors at least a little.
Of course, if you prefer your axes in the hands of twelve-year-olds fighting imaginary Bulgarian sex pests, I suppose nothing I write will convince you otherwise.
Corvos
22hr ago
I am terribly sorry for what has happened to you and your family, and I wish you all the best as the situation develops.
I wonder if you would find it helpful to read VALIS by Philip K Dick, the famous science fiction author, who began experiencing mystical/schizophrenic delusions in his later life.
The book is a very thinly veiled exploration of Dick’s own mental state, and his constant struggle to reconcile his rational understanding that he is deluded with his schizophrenic certainty that all of it is true.
I haven’t read it for a long time but you might find it illuminating or humanising.
Tenaz
22hr ago
It sounds like what you're saying is that there needs to be a difference of type, not just "amount", between us and God?
I disagree that omnipotence is just "more powerful" than me. It's definitionally different. It's not that God can accomplish a million times what I can with one one-millionth the effort; he can accomplish infinitely more than me with zero effort. There's no amount of strength or power that will get you there.
To me the difference between morally perfect, and very good, is the same. There's still an infinite gap between "sins every few decades" and "never sins," let alone God's positive virtues.
Anyways you're interpreting what I said as a definition. I didn't give you a definition of God, I gave you who he is--how I identify him. I don't have a definition for you any more than I have a definition of my dad. I can tell you what traits I believe God has, but my internal definition is subordinate to reality. Perhaps if I were infallible it would not be, but I'm not God.
If your God is not Truth, then I do not worship him.
Right, and if my god turns out to be the correct one--someone who means "I am the truth" in any but the most painstakingly, autistically literal way--then you won't worship him?
I still want a straight answer here. Or at least a "I can't possibly be wrong" so that we can end this conversation.
AvocadoPanic
22hr ago
I've been reading some of the literature.
It seems late onset schizophrenia is more prevalent in women and there may be a hormonal connection as there is with many things in women.
I'm trying not to obsess, but I've been a bit hypervigilant for the past couple weeks.
WhiningCoil
Ghost of Quokka's Future
22hr ago
I'd almost guess some sort of early onset dementia?
ToaKraka
Dislikes you
22hr ago
Any advice on what to do?
The huge container ports on the New Jersey side of the Hudson River are fairly cool. (Read The Box to learn about their history.)
ABigGuy4U
22hr ago
Full disclosure I just hate the government and have no libertarian biases.
Thirty-on-thirty-on-thirty
lagrangian
22hr ago
Going to explore New York (city) for a week or two (starting ~now). Any advice on what to do? Anyone around and want to grab a beer?
I had a heated 3 month fling with FTL back when it came out before I went somewhere for vacation and quit cold turkey. It was first roguelike (and one of my last - definitely not a good genre for me), and adjusting to the expectations of extreme punishment plus cruel RNG took a while. I remember it took me dozens of tries to win the game for the first time, and then I beat it immediately on the next run. And from then on, it was like a 50/50, which really surprised me, because of how utterly wrecked I used to get, and it's not as if the challenge had changed by leveling up or something.
In the middle of it, it felt to me like roleplaying in a very pure way, creating a narrative of a desperate ship captain in this scifi setting who needs to pull on all resources and luck to barely edge out survival for one more node. I don't think I've gotten quite the same experience from other games. And, unfortunately, I think I'd prefer to keep it that way, given how much time I'm likely to waste if I found something similar.
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