domain:firsttoilthenthegrave.substack.com
SomethingMusic
1yr ago
I think Papal Infalibility is deliberately misunderstood to construct bad faith attacks on Catholics, just like how this supreme court ruling is being deliberately misinterpreted by the proles to construct bad faith attacks against Republicans. Of course, the problem is that the answer/debunking takes longer and is much less vitriolic than the hyperbolic misinterpretation, so the misinterpretation becomes what is public consensus, even if the law, and the ruling, is clear that this is not the case.
Great point there.
People who have recently come to support Chevron deference should be happy with a precedent that holds that Executive Branch actors are generally safe from prosecution for actions they take in their official capacity, even if found to be illegal/unconstitutional later.
If the Court had done the 'opposite,' that is, left Chevron in place but decided that immunity just wasn't a thing for the President and his appointees, then the new front that would potentially open up would be states seeking to sue and arrest, personally, the heads of various agencies for actions taken against their citizens. Okay, that could run afoul of the Supremacy Clause in most cases, but once those people leave office then they would have to be consistently concerned that they'd be brought in to answer for some order they gave during their tenure.
AshLael
Just here to farm downvotes
1yr ago
Indeed. I rather suspect that high levels of foreign interest in the conflict is why it continues to be unresolved. Other countries keep intervening politically to "promote peace", but that actually leads to the underlying issues never actually being sorted out.
The west stayed uninvolved in Rwanda, and while that was a horrible and protracted conflict with a shocking death toll, in the end Kagame and the Tutsis won, and it came to an end. Sometimes one side just needs to definitively win and one side needs to definitively lose for the fighting to stop.
The current situation in Sudan is awful, much worse than what is happening in Gaza. But I'm much more optimistic about that conflict being over ten years in the future than I am about Israel/Palestine.
cjet79
1yr ago
As a libertarian I would happily settle for "courts find thing unconstitutional, government officials make minor or no changes continue doing it, they go to jail".
Right now it just seems like officials get to play a game where if they lose in court they get a stern warning, and they can seemingly keep getting stern warnings forever, the only escalation might be that some people suing them start getting settlements paid with taxpayer dollars. The official in question might get fired, but only if they aren't part of a public sector union (why do we allow those again?)
For this specific case, I'm not really a fan of going after publicly elected officials. And you don't really have to in order to maintain rule of law. If Biden orders a seal team six hit on a rival and you can guarantee that everyone except Biden in that chain of command will be sent to jail or executed for carrying out the order then you can make sure the order is never carried out. My vague and bad understanding of military orders is that is mostly how things already work.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
1yr ago
The public interest in preventing harassing lawfare against private citizens (including ex-Presidents) is a lot weaker than the public interest in preventing harassing lawfare against a sitting President.
I’m missing something here.
| No Authority | Authority | |
|---|---|---|
| Not Impeached | Normal Penalties | Immune |
| Impeached | Normal Penalties + Removal | ??? |
Can impeachment impose any penalties other than removal and barring from office? Because it looks like the President can’t be normally prosecuted even if he gets impeached.
Say the President uses his Constitutionally-required State of the Union to advocate rebellion. Nothing as innocent as Trump’s 1/6 remarks—I mean explicitly telling Americans to take up arms against the rightful government. Congress, understandably annoyed, impeaches and convicts. Then what?
Under this decision, the ex-President keeps absolute immunity for the speech, which was discharging his official duty.
DradisPing
1yr ago
Did nobody think having these clearly bonkers people on staff was a bad idea?
Ratfucking teams end up filled by people who can't manage a normal career. The risk / benefit ratio is terrible for a more stable person. You get people who need excitement.
Arnaud
1yr ago
There is no reason except the donors to value Israel higher than Palestine.
Well I can think of a few, the israelis are culturally much closer to the west than the palestinians, which breeds sympathy. Frankly I don't think Palestine would enjoy any western support were it not for general ignorance of most westerners to palestinian culture and a certain knee jerk reaction among some westerners to support any underdog or group that opposes the west.
To western sensibilities the palestinians are barbarous and generally unpleasant. I personally find their combination of weakness and belligerence to be particularly repellant, demanding humane treatment that they themselves would never even consider granting their enemies were the situations reversed.
zeke5123a
1yr ago
There were two other official impeachment inquiries. Couple that with the impeachment of Mayorkos and it is clear there was much more use of the impeachment here.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
1yr ago
Crossing the floor - voting against your own party
As an interesting piece of political terminology geekery, in most Commonwealth countries "crossing the floor" means an elected office-holder leaving their party to join another party - a far more drastic step than just voting against your party on a single vote. In British parlance, voting against your party on a whipped vote is called "rebelling".
zeke5123a
1yr ago
I don’t think the case addresses this and there are arguments that impeachment and conviction could remove the immunity (my theory is that would mean the conduct was ultra vires and therefore not entitled to immunity).
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
1yr ago
The British parties actually have a system for telling MPs (and Lords) just how unacceptable a rebellion would be. The party whips produce a roughly weekly newsletter for their MPs (also called "The Whip") giving warning of forthcoming votes and telling them which way to vote. The preferred vote is underlined once for an important vote where MPs are expected to show up, twice for a vote where MPs are required to show up (unless "paired" with an absent opposition MP) but only habitual offenders will actually be punished for not showing, and three times for a vote where MPs are required to show up and unauthorised absence will be punished by default. Rebelling against a three-line whip will, in theory, get you kicked out of the party caucus (in British terminology, "having the Whip withdrawn" because caucus membership is de facto defined by the circulation of the newsletter) but in practice only happens where there is safety in numbers such that the Party leadership can't afford to kick all the rebels out.
Skibboleth
It's never 4D Chess
1yr ago
How many have been fired for not hewing to CEL social mores?
Extremely few. Especially once you factor out instances of nonconformity that boil down to things like "don't sexually harass your coworkers so badly that even HR can't ignore it".
the primary ways these classes interact are power relationships, and the power almost always goes the same way
Does it, though?
Alternative theory: the asymmetry of "resentment" vs "contempt" is because the mean things liberals say about conservatives cut significantly deeper than vice versa. When conservatives call liberals godless degens, liberals' response is generally something to the effect of "hell yeah we are 😎". This is because they fundamentally don't care about the accusations. There's also a degree of reactance, especially for LGBT individuals, but there's no sense of shame or humiliation. Its like accusing a Christian of being a bad Muslim. On the other hand, almost everyone in the US thinks bigotry is bad and education is good. So when liberals call conservatives ignorant bigots, that actually lands. Notably, conservatives tend to get way more riled up about being accused of racism than homophobia (and don't care at all about being called things like gun nuts).
The actual power asymmetry is that educated liberals can make uneducated conservatives feel bad about themselves, whereas uneducated conservatives can merely scare educated liberals.
sarker
It isn't happening, and if it is, it's a bad thing
1yr ago
The west stayed uninvolved in Rwanda,
This is not true, both France and the UN sent troops. UN troops didn't intervene militarily, but they did shelter thousands of people from the genocide.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
1yr ago
Even without Presidential immunity, it is an interesting question whether the speech would be protected by the Speech and Debate clause. The Speech and Debate clause is written to only protect Representatives and Senators, but given that it has penumbras and emanations that protect members' and committee staffers, it seems like it could reasonably be extended to protect the President giving the SOTU.
If the speech was protected by the S&D clause, the President could still be impeached for it (because that is a proceeding in Congress) but not prosecuted (even after impeachment, because S&D protection can't be waived).
The_Nybbler
In the game of roller derby, women aren't just the opposing team; they're the ball.
1yr ago
Then nothing. The President's State of the Union remarks are protected absolutely. But note if he pulled out a Tommy gun and started mowing down the legislature, this would not be an official act, even though it occurred in the course of one.
hydroacetylene
1yr ago
I agree it seems strange, but not nearly as odd as BLM blowing up in countries with basically no black people.
This is not the first case of weird leftist obsessions crossing country boundaries in random ways.
Supah_Schmendrick
1yr ago
You need the chain of command of the unit to do the actual striking, plus whatever logistics, signals, transport, and support tail is needed to get the strike package to the target, etc. As I understand it, almost nothing happens in the modern U.S. military with "just a few people."
The_Nybbler
In the game of roller derby, women aren't just the opposing team; they're the ball.
1yr ago
Justice Sotomayor, at least, thinks the majority opinion precludes this
Inherent in Trump’s Impeachment Judgment Clause argument is the idea that a former President who was impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate for crimes involving his official acts could then be prosecuted in court for those acts. See Brief for Petitioner 22 (“The Founders thus adopted a carefully balanced approach that permits the criminal prosecution of a former President for his official acts, but only if that President is first impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate”). By extinguishing that path to overcoming immunity, however nonsensical it might be, the majority arrives at an official acts immunity even more expansive than the one Trump argued for. On the majority’s view (but not Trump’s), a former President whose abuse of power was so egregious and so offensive even to members of his own party that he was impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate still would be entitled to “at least presumptive” criminal immunity for those acts.
I believe she is correct, though the "presumptive" immunity likely would not be a problem, since in a case where the President was successfully impeached and convicted, the presumption could likely be overcome. The absolute immunity would be a problem.
hanikrummihundursvin
1yr ago
Very hard to call it random when it's so consistent.
DradisPing
1yr ago
how did this candidate not know the TCP 3 way handshake cold?
I've always thought of the tcp handshake as more of a tech shibboleth. It's something you pick up if you've been around, but I've never actually needed to know it. What's your experience on that?
hydroacetylene
1yr ago
Trans hasn’t.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
What do you mean? I'm pretty sure it has, unless you're talking about Asia, Africa or the Middle East.
Yes.
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