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Culture War Roundup for the week of October 31, 2022

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As certain as the Sun that daws in the Morning, with the new Italian Right-wing government there is a new refugee scandalous crisis.

A NGO ship full of immigrants, after picking them in the front of the Libyan Coast, came in front of Italian coasts asking for a safe port. Crisis ensures.

Considering that only in the last 30 days over 10.000 immigrants came illegaly in Italy, it is not like it is the first time. As always, the NGO ship menaced that all the people on board are basically dying, that the government should take them and if they are not they are complicit in killing hundreds.

Now the ship came to the port after an agreement where they could let disembark only children and ill people before leaving... and after the first thing happened the ship refused to leave the port. To add to the confusion, a newly elected MP from the left-wing opposition, born in the Ivory Coast, is right now aboard the ship.

Another mess in the Mediterranean migratory crisis, who has no end in sight and has a lot of very powerful forces that try to obstacolate every immigration control.

Now the ship came to the port after an agreement where they could let disembark only children and ill people before leaving... and after the first thing happened the ship refused to leave the port.

In other words, the authorities got cucked?

Everyone on board the ship who orchestrated this nonsense should be thrown in jail, the ship sold for scrap and the book thrown at the NGO types.

You know the French had an interesting solution to nautical NGOs messing with their geostrategic interests...

Ever heard of the Rainbow Warrior?

They need to copy-paste Australia's tactics. Offshore processing! Alas Italy is bereft of unpleasant countries like Papua New Guinea where refugees can be sent - but it gets the job done. Incentives work.

On 19 July 2013 in a joint press conference with PNG Prime Minister Peter O'Neill and Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd detailed the Regional Resettlement Arrangement (RRA) between Australia and Papua New Guinea:[40]

"From now on, any asylum seeker who arrives in Australia by boat will have no chance of being settled in Australia as refugees. Asylum seekers taken to Christmas Island will be sent to Manus and elsewhere in Papua New Guinea for assessment of their refugee status. If they are found to be genuine refugees they will be resettled in Papua New Guinea... If they are found not to be genuine refugees they may be repatriated to their country of origin or be sent to a safe third country other than Australia. These arrangements are contained within the Regional Resettlement Arrangement signed by myself and the Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea just now."

The real problem isn't anything to do with the Refugee Convention or similar - Australia was fully capable of ignoring the human rights lawyers and similar. The EU is much more powerful than some university centre for refugee law. I'd bet all my assets that the EU would rain hellfire and desolation upon an Australian solution in Italy. They actually have teeth, they have leverage over Italy's borrowing.

I see this as calling the bluff in a De Santis/Martha's Vineyard sense. If they are truly not economic migrants and are in danger of persecution then they should be reasonably happy to be placed in a safe country as compared to a first world one. If they're just there for economic advantage then they can apply through formal immigration channels.

Clearly the massive drop in boat arrivals in Australia after implementation of this policy makes it obvious they weren't just trying to avoid persecution.

Interestingly the Australian government made the claim that deterring refugee boats saved lives due to mysterious hull breaches when approaching the coast or the coast guard.

Alas Italy is bereft of unpleasant countries like Papua New Guinea where refugees can be sent - but it gets the job done.

It has enough small islands in the Mediterranean that can be used to house detention camps for the migrants, Nauru style. For example, there's Linosa, which is about 1/4 of Nauru by area and has only 430 inhabitants. Give them 1mln Euro each, and you get a nice uninhabited island with a real volcano, a perfect place for a detention camp.

They need to copy-paste Australia's tactics. Offshore processing! Alas Italy is bereft of unpleasant countries like Papua New Guinea where refugees can be sent - but it gets the job done. Incentives work.

Didn't the British plan to send refugees to Rwanda and that got scuttled?

Israel gets rid of their infiltrators by sending them to Rwanda.

IIRC the British deal got scuttled.

A NGO ship full of immigrants, after picking them in the front of the Libyan Coast, came in front of Italian coasts asking for a safe port. Crisis ensures.

Which NGO ship and who runs this NGO?

Humanity 1. The NGO is "SOS Humanity", a German organisation.

The new Italian government is arguing that the host countries of these organisations should agree to take in some of the migrants who are being picked up at sea.

SOS Humanity argues that any migrant whose ship capsizes etc. and gets rescued by them has a right, under the law of the sea, to be taken to the nearest safe port. The incentive effects that this creates are obviously monstrous: you can go anywhere, provided you can do so unsafely. NGOs will make every effort to help you get into the country you want, provided that your boat sinks and the lives of e.g. your children are threatened...

It's like offering a child toys and candy every time they drink bleach.

The Italian government must be very careful, because the last interior minister who tried to reduce mass migration over the Mediterranean is now being prosecuted for "kidnapping" migrants and could face 15 years in jail for his actions as minister...

The solution is to take the refugees/migrants with open arms, pass a law that says you'll give them welfare, but that the funds can't raise the deficit, they have to come from funding for foreign aid and similar programs. Each time a boat of refugees come, you get to defund various NGOs.

The NGOs will then have a reason to not dump refugees in your country. And you can do this for every problem that NGOs try to saddle you with. Then NGOs are going to be a bit more cautious, and maybe even push back against other NGOs that try political stunts.

That sounds complicated and open to a hundred angles of attack that you can be sure the very active pro-immigrant elements will find long before the sluggish anti-immigrant side patches the holes. Trying to be clever seems risky when the other side has proven consistently more capable and subversive.

I doubt that SOS Humanity is funded by the Italian government. Maybe by the German government, but they're not taking the migrants to Germany.

The migrants will try to skeddadle for Germany. They all do.

Right now a waiting room at a border railway station I used to use a lot can't be used because it's permanently camped by a bunch of unwashed thirty-ish bearded brown men trying to get to Germany. I have very limited sense of smell due to some permanent upper airways infection but.. yuck.

Probably Syrians or some North Africans, as they have fairly nice clothes and phones. which would be odd for Pakistanis or Afghans.

I asked some locals, supposedly they change fairly quickly, they get tossed out from cross-border trains and end up there.

More importantly, who are the individuals behind SOS Humanity and who is bankrolling them? I couldn't find a single name in their website's About Us section.

How about prosecuting the individuals who are funding cross border people trafficking ? Because these NGOs were found to be cooperating with people smugglers.

If you can't win a case against the NGO, you're not going to win a case against people funding it.

There's a simple solution here that doesn't need to destroy Maritime law, you put everyone that immigrated into a country through this method into camps until they are fit to be shipped out or legally apply, and make the camps only slightly better than prison.

Anyone would take internment over drowning, but you wouldn't sail miles just to get interned and ultimately shipped back.

But then you run into the institutions that think incarceration of aliens which they are free to leave at any moment is a violation of their human rights for some reason.

I would think the ECHR much more relevant in this case. But yes this is quite exactly what prevents any reasonable scheme to prevent this situation.

Well, the simple solution is to repudiate those treaties.

I know it's part of the West's psychology to say "never again" about anything to do with WW2 (including the issue of people not wanting Jewish refugees) but this situation is unsustainable.

This is not a problem of having no solutions, it's a problem of will

And, frankly, dissimilar to the original situation. Massive difference between long-term - often assimilated- Jewish minorities in European nations being deported and no European doing anything and being on the hook for any unfortunate victim of racism, sexism, homophobia (as defined by the West - i.e. most of the world would be victimizing people on these grounds) or even climate change and other long-term baked in economic and material considerations.

Can Italy repudiate those treaties ?

If the constition isn't a suicide pact, neither are treaties which depend on it for validity. A treaty which abolishes the right of a state to prevent entry of armed, hostile foreigners, abolishes the state itself.

The first link is paywalled, but the second story quite clearly is about a state/states preventing entry, or at least doing their best to prevent so. There's no indication any treaty prevents this, and the Spanish (left-wing) prime minister says as much that they're going to prevent migrants from doing that. I'm not sure how it is relevant for this case, then?

The first link is paywalled

This, or this.

prevent migrants from doing that

I was wrong. It seems ECHR had given their blessing to treat a storming mob, differently than an orderly queue.

Alternatively, you can let them apply and then ship them back to Libya until their application has been processed(and most likely denied).

It's not like Libya is in any state to prevent that.

I think a sufficiently motivated prosecutor could probably make out a case that SOS Humanity are criminally conspiring with human traffickers to capsize ships and put migrants' lives in danger. Seems like an unavoidable conclusion in light of their MO that whatever maritime law compels a right of safe harbor under duress has been incorporated into SOS Humanity's standard operating procedures and they are complicit in creating those circumstances of duress.

Italy should confiscate every property and freeze bank accounts of all politicians complicit in tearing apart Lybia