Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.
- 32
- 1
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The Associated Press: In January 2025, Mexico passed a constitutional amendment banning the sale (but not the possession or use) of electronic cigarettes (vapes). A law to actually implement the ban was passed in December 2025. Naturally, the cartels have taken over the market.
More options
Context Copy link
So I guess Latin American drug smuggling boats have the green light now huh?
For those not watching American news, what has happened?
Prior to the Maduro operation, the US Navy was blowing up alleged smuggling boats in the Carribean and Eastern Pacific every week. The speculation was that the purpose of these was to put pressure on the Maduro regime. After Maduro was captured, they seem to have quietly stopped.
According to Wikipedia, there was one strike in the Pacific on January 23, so I guess it's a yellow light.
Maybe the drug smugglers got the message and stopped using that route, or reduced its usage, at least in the places where they can easily be intercepted and blown up? I mean, those people are not dumb, they should be used to adapting quickly.
Maybe the strikes continue, but US Navy is not announcing them anymore and keeps the snuff footage for themselves instead of proudly displaying it online. There are always many possibilities, only when, decades ahead, archives open, history nerds might start patching together what was actually happening.
Looks like they did change something - they are trying subs now: https://x.com/RickyDoggin/status/2021711954600157185 - obviously, this one didn't work out that well.
More options
Context Copy link
Possible but I don't see why would they suddenly stop announcing it. What changed?
We've done at least one since then, the anti-Trump media industrial complex has other things to focus on at this moment so they are doing that.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The Guardian: The garbagemen of Birmingham, center of England's third-largest urban area, have been on strike for almost an entire year—since March 2025. The contractors hired to replace them joined the strike in December.
I can't find any prediction markets for when the strike will end. Does anybody know of any? I'm surprised it lasted this long.
More options
Context Copy link
For those of us who have forgotten the plot
https://www.themotte.org/post/1827/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/316906?context=8#context
It's insane, but completely unsurprising, that the Guardian doesn't mention any of this.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Statistics page: In 2021, Birmingham was 31 percent Asian. This is up from 27 percent in 2011 and 20 percent in 2001, so presumably the figure is even higher among working-age people.
BBC article: The union pays them 70 pounds per day, and some have gotten second jobs.
That "Asian" category Brits use is very annoying. As if Japanese and Pakistanis are exactly the same and it's not worth differentiating between them.
The linked page does clarify that it's 17 % Pakistani, 6 % Indian, 4 % Bangladeshi, 1 % Chinese, and 3 % "other Asian".
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Usually they are bankrolled by their union's warchest.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
A Muslim activist who served a prison sentence for his role in an overseas terror plot is now seeking elected office in Birmingham, Britain’s second-largest city, as local elections approach amid heightened communal tensions. Is there something special going in Birmingham, or it's just how things are in UK now?
Muslims are clannish and always vote for muslims. Non-muslims won't not vote for muslims. Left-wingers would rather vote for Saddam Hussein than a right-wing party.
More options
Context Copy link
Oh damn, I missed the best part: this guy is literally named Shahid Butt. They are going to have a terrorist named Shahid Butt on the city council. If I lived in Birmingham I'd vote for him (I would never live there so I can say whatever I like).
This is amazing.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_vwVLRXAAAyFit?format=jpg&name=small
Oi do you have a loicense for that noticing?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The three Birminhgam residents photographed and interviewed have Arabic/Indian(?) names and are clearly not ethnically British, while the garbage man photographed and interviewed is clearly ethnically British.
"Are you sure this will help us sell more burgers?"
The names aren't "Indian". Islamic names tend to be quite similar across MENA, but I'm confident that the people named aren't, especially the ones for whom we've got pictures. Even going off priors, Indians in the UK don't work those kind of jobs.
I suppose you're trying to tell me they're Pakistani which is theoretically interesting but does not change the thrust of my post. Is there some catch-all term I can use to avoid these tedious corrections from Indian/Bengali/Pakistani/etc people? I suppose "South Asian?". Or "subcontinental," though that sounds like it might offend people. What's the preferred term to refer to this collection of peoples? If there isn't one, I'm probably just going to have to continue saying "Indian."
Both South Asian or Subcontinental work, since Bangladeshis are at least technically more likely to be in the reference class.
What about "Desi"?
That's just another word for Indian. It effectively means someone from the country (of India, implicitly).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Good to know, thank you.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Seriously the only way to stop this rot is to let subcontinental and MENA migrants have a fast tracked promotion carveout in newspapers and judge allocations. Otherwise these people get ton continually pretend their pets are Progressive Liberals Like Us But Brown.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link