This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
As of this time @HlynkaCG has been permabanned. I'm posting this message at the top of the thread, because its not really for Hlynka, its for the community to know. There were a few different posts I could have chosen in the modqueue, and many of them were too buried to be visible. The mod team has given him repeated warnings and bans. And I personally reached out to him last ban to warn him that a permaban was likely coming if this behavior continued.
I mostly do not feel this is a good thing, but it is a necessary thing. Hlynka had quite a few quality contributions, and I don't think I was alone in appreciating his often unique (for themotte) perspective. But he repeatedly did it in a way that just wasn't acceptable for the rules around here.
I would like people to have a few takeaways:
Please keep any discussion civil.
It’s a shame he was simply unable to follow the rules. He made some very good posts, but then would have occasional outbursts at random people. Who can forget the time he was randomly racist to @self_made_human and accused him of not being able to understand English because he was Indian or something?
Not unable. Unwilling. He used to be a mod in the Reddit days for Pete's sake (not that I was terribly thrilled about that), very few people know more about how to toe the line. No way was he incapable of doing so. He made an active choice not to.
More options
Context Copy link
Well I certainly didn't, if only because I speak better English than he does and that requires some working memory.
I think the specific claim in question was I was unable to parse his clear language and misunderstanding him because it's difficult for me to translate from English to "Indian".
The audacity, I find it even hard to be mad. I did find his takes on machine learning and LLMs to be far worse for my blood pressure, as they were the kind of "not even wrong" mixed with gish-galloping and a pugnacious inability to know when he was conclusively and incontrovertibly mistaken, in a manner not easier to falsify than reading a comment I write, in English.
Anyway, I for one am not sad he's gone, though I have repeatedly had to recuse myself from taking mod action against him however justified it was because of the obvious conflict of interest (and so do other mods with people they have some kind of personal tiff with, unless they're the kind of asshole who has beef with all of us) . I knew this would happen, he can't help himself.
More options
Context Copy link
this is the most Jewish contribution I've ever seen you make
'shame he was simply unable to follow the rules' lmao okay, fair point. Shame you killed Jesus and His blood is on you and your people
What a goofy post that seems like it's straight out of 4chan. But given that this account just started posting 12 days ago, I presume it's a ban-evader who will just make a new account.
The only other post from Vino I recall is him praising Hitler. It's definitely bait and not of great quality.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
What the hell kind of comment is that supposed to be? I don't know who is or isn't Jewish, atheist, Buddhist, wiccan, Wiccan, etc. on here because I don't keep that kind of information on people to hand. We're coming up to Easter, is that supposed to be a crack in advance?
When you're ready, you won't have to
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Shame that Christianity that sees Jews as "Christkillers" is dead and Christianity that sees Jews as "beloved elder brothers" and "forever Chosen people" is growing by leaps and bounds world wide.
I’m not sure what you were expecting, but take a 1 day time out for your bizarre culture warring.
What do you think of all the dead Palestinians recently?
Unable to similar-mind someone who would find that comment 'bizarre culture warring'
I don't really care how you or Eetan feels about Jews, Christians, or Palestinians. You have to talk about them with a level head.
This may be a perfectly appropriate response to something from somewhere, but probably not to the question 'what do you think of all the dead Palestinians recently'?
They’re alright, I guess.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I may be misreading him but I took this as pointing out Christian philosemitism is much larger than Christian antisemitism in modern times.
So it’s not really “bizarre” because he was matching the framing of the previous comment to say “shame most Christians disagree with your views.”
Though I guess it’s unavoidably culture warring in that responding in kind to a comment blatantly breaking the rules is still going to break the rules. But it didn’t strike me as over the top, so I would think this was more of a warning situation (unless you have other violations as a pattern).
@Eetan is probably somewhat antisemitic but I don’t think that was the intention of the comment, it was just bait/trolling. Of course, the latter is arguably more deserving of a ban here.
And that’s what makes the Motte special
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Is the Motte supposed to be funny?
This is the funniest shit I've read all morning
And by the time this discussion is done, Zorba will come in and find that everyone has banned everyone and he's all alone on the Motte.
More options
Context Copy link
There definitely needs to be a day where absurdist comedy is allowed, maybe we can unban Hlynka on it
I think if Hlynka should be unbanned if he does “The Hock”, with photographic evidence to back up his claim. Trial by ordeal.
I’m not even remotely kidding.
That might be the funniest deep cut mashup of internet niche humor ever produced. It would be a scream come true.
I would kill myself if this happened.
Then again, Hlynka probably has a much higher chance of surviving the Hock than Skookum does.
Place your bets people, military training and oppositional defiant personality disorder versus medical training and weapons-grade autism. Who can weather the wastes first?
More options
Context Copy link
I am on standby to make the rdrama thread if that ever happens.
Much as I realise it's suicide to do so and that consciously I can not condone it, deep down a part of me very much wants someone from here to do The Hock (and hopefully live to tell us the tale) because the memes it will generate will be fire.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
You know, and I had been meaning to ask in the fun thread this week, what happened to Mr Hock?
He was banned for only ever posting about the Hock. His reddit account is still active, so clearly he hasn't gone into the woods to his death.
More options
Context Copy link
I asked the same question about a month ago. Apparently he
chickened outcame to his senses and realized it was a suicide mission. He went on a big mountain climbing trip instead, which is less fun but more sensible.More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Easter seems like the obvious choice for a resurrection.
As an Easter treat can we have a Skookum vs hlynka debate, ‘are some races doomed to die out because their men are short?’
More options
Context Copy link
Having everyone unbanned for 24hrs before being rebanned on April Fools would be absolutely wild.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
God: Hey, I need you to turn my son over to the Romans so that can crucify him.
Jews: :-/
God: Trust me, it'll be awesome! You're my chosen people! Would I lead you astray?
Jews: Well, there were those forty years in the...
God: Oh, for my sakes! Will you let that go already? I gave you manna, didn't I?
Jews: Okay, fine, you're the god.
Jesus: X-(
A thousand years later...
Jews: :-(
How did you get that from the scripture, which to refresh your recollection, reads:
What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.
They all answered, “Crucify him!”
23 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”
24 When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”
25 All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Eh, I wouldn't blame all the Jews for killing Chirst. Caiaphas and his ilk yes, but extending it to all Jews is just taking it too far. Even Herod Antipas (who was Jewish) didn't want to convict Jesus.
Well, you might not, but Christians for 1900 years nearly unanimously interpreted this biblical passage that way.
Until Scofield Bible and Nostra Aetate, but this is another story.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
What exactly are you trying to convey through this comment barring pure antagonism?
Consider this a warning. I don't extend a short ban only because you don't have any prior offenses in the mod queue, but personal attacks of this nature, especially so non-sequitur, are not kosher.Edit: After this received a bunch more reports, I'm upgrading you to a day's ban. I feel like even a regular in good standing would deserve rebuke for an uncalled for and random attack of that nature, and you haven't earned that. Do not do that again.
More options
Context Copy link
Incidentally I partly agree that the above response does sound vaguely condescending, but just out of curiosity before you inevitably get modded - what did you expect to gain with this accusation? What was the point of the specific (((angle))) when you surely could've gotten away with simply calling the response out as smugly condescending without the added insults on top? Does it just not hit the same way?
Genuine question, feel free to respond in DMs if you think I'm baiting you to dig yourself deeper.
Once in a blue moon there is value all to itself in saying what you wanted to
Can't disagree, but counterpoint: keeping your power level in check doesn't automatically make you a cuck (not by itself, at least) and is a generally beneficial, widely applicable practice.
For what it's worth the modded post gave me a good chuckle but it's not worth getting sniped for.
The left has successfully eliminated every space available to the less-than-50-Stalins...except for this one. Our king Zorba probably deserves a statue or at least a portrait for this - it didn't happen by accident. But that was just a little side-cuck to your deserved response lol
Point is that I keep my power level in check 99.9% of the time. Turn on the radio, bite my lip. TV, hold my tongue. Out for drinks, better not say anything. I work for myself but otherwise can only imagine.
Once in a blue moon there is value all to itself in just saying "fuck" with an extra "k" on the exhale and pointing people to scripture (Matthew 27)
Yes, but one of the methods by which this place continues to withstand elimination is exactly what you got shot for - i.e. immediately turning any issue or disagreement into culture war. Personally this is exactly why I value this place and am willing to hide my power level by e.g. not participating in political discussions or not considering "cope and seethe" a valid way of responding.
It's a feature, not a bug. You might see it as cuckoldry, I see it as a price of admission, I can always (and often do) slum it with fellow /g/entlemen but the quality of discourse and the IQ of the median poster is dreadful in comparison.
Such is life for high power level beings, and for what it's worth I empathize. I still think that's not an excuse to flip out at people in the sole place where tone is the only thing actually being moderated (YMMV but I believe in this particular bit of propaganda) and you can otherwise freely post on [MIND-KILLING TOPIC] as long as you are verbose enough and make a passing effort at sounding neutral (the One Weird Trick jannies
don'twant you to know!)We're in furious agreement all around it seems
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I wasn’t really being condescending. Hlynka had a longstanding dislike for me, but except for one time he was being almost comically racist to another user for no reason I never reported him (actually even then I’m not sure I did, but I might have). I enjoyed a lot of his posts, and as another user said I thought he brought a valuable perspective as a Christian red state Reaganite conservative, a group who make up the bulk of American conservatives but who are certainly underrepresented on this board.
For what it's worth, I didn't interpret your post as condescending, but as simply regretful.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link