domain:pedestrianobservations.com
ThomasdelVasto
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου
2hr ago
And so on and so forth. This model really doesn't make sense and ignores quite a bit of known medical knowledge.
A perfectly fair accusation. I do indeed ignore quite a bit of 'known' knowledge of psychology and psychiatry. I find this perfectly reasonable given the replication crisis, the obvious corruption in the field, and my own personal experiences.
ETA: For the record I still love you @self_made_human!
UnopenedEnvilope
2hr ago
On a tangent, the EPA kind-of expects some of this at scale, and requires environmental standby trusts. While Noxious Chemical Co., Inc. is operating its plant making substances that for-the-love-of-God will hopefully never leak out, it has to put money aside in a trust that it can’t unilaterally withdraw without the EPA’s joint consent.
This way, if there’s a catastrophic explosion loosing horrid material at its plant, Noxious Chemical Co. can’t just file Chapter 7 and leave the rest of society solely responsible for the cost of cleanup.
ThomasdelVasto
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου
2hr ago
No, the point of doing that is because people who say they have it are usually using it as an excuse to be destructive
Idk man, I have experienced the opposite where I am genuinely hypermobile (source: my joints pop around!) and if anything it was less of an excuse to be destructive. I think that you and mister throwaway are being far too negative towards this subset of the population, though I'm sure he at least has fair reason having to deal with many more of them than I do.
All this being said, I'm not sure how this line of argumentation applies to the original point that some people with these health issues have shamanic abilities/tendencies. Can you tie it back for me?
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
2hr ago
The bailey may be true - you'd have to defend it
I mean, there's this obvious pattern where if you look at the SJ and traditional positions on most cultural issues, the (actual) Marxist position is right in the middle. How did I put it?
Tradition: "Men should be in charge of women", Marxism: "Sex divisions are a distraction and should be ignored", SJ: "Women should be in charge of men".
Tradition: "The white man is the best man", Marxism: "Racial divisions are a distraction from class struggle; be colourblind", SJ: "Whites suck".
Tradition: "White culture is scientifically superior to natives' primitive culture and we should raze the latter", Marxism: "All cultures suck and we should make a new, constructed culture designed by science", SJ: "Indigenous ways of knowing are just as valid as science; traditional Western culture should be razed".
And as others have noted, there is a direct line of descent. The obvious culprit would be the Marxist academic community attempting to out-Marx itself on cultural issues (having adopted a virtue axis of "Marxism good, tradition bad").
You are of course correct that this interesting historical tangent is not dispositive of the question "is SJ good or bad?". Merits are merits; descent is descent.
UnopenedEnvilope
2hr ago
A lot of those communities were pretty left-wing and peace-minded and I don't know to what extent that position changed after the massacres.
The violence of the Second Intifada wiped out the electoral-viability of Israel’s left. I would be surprised if issuance of work permits resumes anytime in the near future.
sockpuppet2
2hr ago
If no one else is going to link to Scott's latest CW-related post, I guess I'll try to meet the mods' wishes for a top level comment... (Though I didn't re-read it, so...)
Fascism Can't Mean Both A Specific Ideology And A Legitimate Target
I agree, inasmuch we stipulate "Political violence in America is morally unacceptable" means "literally, categorically unacceptable, due to our assessment of the threat of fascism" and "(at the current time)" ignores the possibility of near-future change in the threat-assessment. Though I emphatically oppose political violence, I don't think it would be logically incongruent to leave open the possibility that fascism is bad enough that we're near the point of political violence being acceptable. But I don't think Scott's doing a motte-and-bailey, by using a narrow denotation; just stating a motte, with the expectation his readers take it at face value.
Characteristic of Scott, the post is a neat exercise in logical tidiness. However, it only gestures at the bigger, scarier question: How do societies classify danger and determine when violence becomes permissible? The classification of threats is important, because names carry significant policy weight (e.g., Trump labeling Antifa a domestic terrorist organization...). Label something "fascism" as a distinct ideology, and you direct attention towards connotations and lineage. However, use the same term as a moral epithet (i.e., a catch-all for political enemies) and you alter the rhetorical perception.
mildly_obsolete
2hr ago
Even without apartheid jews would be in control of the state institutions for decades, decent treatment would be enough to keep non-jewish citizens in check, time would do the rest. Problem is that jews want their state jewish.
Clementine
2hr ago
So the war is (at least temporarily) over.
No one, myself included, fully believed Hamas was going to actually hand over the live hostages until they did so. They are now withholding the dead ones, which is more typical.
The joy about the hostages' release was obviously mixed with other feelings, hence Israeli social media being full of posts commemorating the dead, and Israeli talk in the streets full of mourning the release of terrorists and the inevitable encouraging of more kidnappings (an attempt at kidnapping was foiled the day before).
Still, there was a lot of joy to be had.
As for the long term repercussions of these two years of war... No one knows yet, obviously.
One thing I am somewhat curious to see is what happens with Gazans getting work permits to enter Israel — before the war that was a thing (thousands of permits and millions of dollars in wages), but in the wake of the revelation that they then gave maps of the places they visited to Hamas (in fairness — they were probably being threatened by Hamas if they didn't) I don't know if the communities surrounding Gaza will be willing to allow it again. A lot of those communities were pretty left-wing and peace-minded and I don't know to what extent that position changed after the massacres.
Also before the war the government was pursuing a strategy of "surely with enough money Hamas will just focus on governing" hence the (in Israeli terms) scandal over how much money Netanyahu was giving them from Qatar. I think the dream of them being pacified with money is pretty thoroughly dead on the Israeli side these days, and that might also affect the work permit equation.
West Bank Palestinians have been having a lot more difficulty getting entry permits since the war as well, I actually do expect that to ease up pretty significantly now, especially if things stay calm for like, a month. I hope I'm right about that.
A lot of I/P coexistence initiatives went into hibernation mode after the outbreak of the war. They had already started to come back before this ceasefire — I went to one a few months ago, a meeting of West Bank Palestinians and Israelis in a relatively more safe area of the West Bank (so Palestinians could get to it without needing entry permits and Israelis would be less scared of going than if it was held in other areas of the West Bank). I feel like that meetup is probably worth a separate post (it was fascinating) but in any case I do expect the coexistence initiatives to start doing a lot better if the sort-of peace also sort-of holds. The veterans of those groups say they're used to these kinds of ebbs and flows.
I am skeptical we get a break from the decades of missiles from Gaza because of the ostensible ceasefire — that hasn't been the case in all previous "ceasefires", so if it happened it would be a sign something is actually different about this one.
We're due an election in a year but historically Israel very very very rarely (aka: it happened one time) makes it all the way to the actual official due date instead of calling early elections. So we'll probably get one soon.
Anyway. For now it's "wait and see". I'm not optimistic about the summit in Egypt leading to any real change but I truly would love to be proven wrong and something good happens for once. And whatever the future holds, in the moment, right now, I am really happy that the last two years are over.
vorpa-glavo
2hr ago
Regarding the origins of wokeism, recently I chanced upon the concept of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (MTD), it also has a Wikipedia entry. Basically there are people who argue that general wokification of institutions is an internal development of some of the American elite's religion, via Unitarianism and then Unitarian Universalism, and the general "be nice, don't judge, don't harm" morality of Oprah with a deistic God you can occasionally call upon for some encouragement but doesn't demand much, just to be kind, there are many equally valid paths etc. This is of course not the same as the mandatory activism required by woke, not merely a lack of judging etc. But it is the basis for the willingness of simply nice decent people to obey such demands.
I've encountered the concept before, but while I think it captures something about the secularization of society and the rise of "spiritual but not religious types", I don't think it is very explanatory.
I actually think the Guilt-shame distinction (which you partially touched upon in your third paragraph) probably goes further to explain much of the shape of contemporary life. I honestly think guilt culture is just another angle of approaching Western individualism. In shame-honor culture, what is important is your place in the collective. This is the source of your pride and honor. In a guilt culture, various social technologies are used to make it so that the rules are inside peoples heads, and are pre-enforced by the knowledge of the self-flagellating guilt that will result from stepping a toe out of line.
While Christianity is one path towards a guilt culture, given its emphasis on individual repentance and salvation, I think in modernity things like Wokeism show one way this kind of culture can be maintained in a secular way. However, I think Wokeism is a lot more prone to what I see as a likely failure state of guilt culture: anxiety. If all the social structures of a guilt culture are oriented towards making human animals feel guilt, a basic problem emerges. How do you know when a person has "cooked enough", and feels enough guilt that they won't do bad things anymore? You don't.
So some people get "overcooked" or "burnt" by guilt culture, and do indeed develop a psychology that won't do bad things or break the rules at the cost of crippling anxiety. And I think because Wokeism is an amorphous mass movement, without the supernaturalism or the 2000 years of practical wisdom of Christianity to deal with it, it is a lot more prone to such "overcooking."
Relatedly, I suspect that a lot of dysfunction in pluralistic, liberal democracies is due to clashes between a wider guilt culture, and pockets of shame culture that still exist in various parts of society. For example, in America, I would put forward African American ghetto/gang culture as more of a shame culture. (I know I'm not the first person to suggest this. Thomas Sowell hints at this in his "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", and I'm sure I've read similar things around here, though I am currently unable to properly credit who here might have said something like this.) I think there's always going to be a bit of a clash between the two, especially if elements of the shame culture end up including a rejection of elements of the guilt culture's hierarchies and values.
While I think it is possible that the Kumbaya, "Let's all get along" aesthetic of Moralist Therapeutic Deism (MDT) is one foundation for Western guilt culture, I actually think it is precisely backwards. In the West, people don't decide to act nice and decent because of MDT. Instead, people adopt MDT because their brains have been programmed into guilt machines, and they thus already have a great propensity to act nice and decent most of the time.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
2hr ago
I don’t think there’s any actual evidence of foul play here. What you are calling a Russian attack is at best a Post-Hoc claim. Trump promised more weapons to Ukraine, and threatened more tariffs for Chinese goods, and got a ceasefire agreement in Israel. Any one of those could be the reason for an attack. But that assumes there was an attack at all. Maybe it actually was just an accident.
Corvos
2hr ago
Does that mean woke activism is just a far right extension of Nazi legal theory adapted to modern times?
Thus, the feminazi :)
WhiningCoil
Ghost of Quokka's Future
2hr ago
Alternately, Russia so successfully sabotaged the US decades ago, they no longer need to today.
ThisIsSin
PC is for progressive-conservative
3hr ago
There is no feminist Marx; there is no feminist equivalent to Capital.
Feminism is redistributionist at its core, though. It just looks really weird because men don't understand women, and understanding women takes way more words to write down. They have a 200,000 year head start on their complexity and selection pressure has been high with respect to hiding their resource-extraction behaviors from the gender that most often takes the time to seriously analyze this sort of thing.
Redistribution looks like traditional communism when men do it because their biological specialization [and inherent worth] is based on labor (so equality of outcome means a good laborer and a bad laborer receive the same economic capital). When your biological specialization is something else, the character of redistributing what that is will be entirely different (perhaps one where equality of outcome means a pretty woman and an ugly woman receive the same social capital- efforts to establish equality of outcome won't focus on labor, or if it does it's just a side effect of technology-enabled gender equality).
Nobody who I think is worth taking remotely seriously tries to group together Christianity and Marxism.
Only in the sense that Marx (as far as I can gather; I haven't taken the time to properly read his work) is pointing at (intentionally or not) what the wiser Christian communities were doing at the time. And neither of those approaches scale, for the same reasons- they don't account for the wicked.
2rafa
3hr ago
Russia is much more comfortable directing sabotage operations on European soil than American soil. Since Putin came to power he has overtly, publicly assassinated dozens in Europe, including many in Western European countries like the UK, Spain and Germany. Russia also planned assassinations of major military and defense figures like the Rheinmetall CEO. He hasn’t assassinated anyone overtly in the USA, and hasn’t even come close to assassinating US defense figures.
If they were going to escalate by blowing up a munitions factory, they would 100% do so in Europe.
Skulldrinker
3hr ago
I'd gladly accept a pile of crypto and give you whatever reimbursement doesn't cause you tax concerns.
Fruck
Lacks all conviction
3hr ago
It's possible to have both at once though. Like if you are depressed and then you develop schizophrenia. In that instance they determine schizophrenia by assessing whether your symptoms are affected by your mood - if it is, it's more likely bipolar or schizoaffective disorder, if it isn't, it's schizophrenia.
Throwaway05
3hr ago
No there is a specific pattern of issues in emotional response and personality construction with associated genetic markers known as borderline personality disorder. Many people with this condition incorrectly label themselves with a bunch of other stuff that may or may not be real but generally doesn't apply to them.
True allergies have an at least partially known mechanism.
Depression doesn't quite march clearly with the others listed and likely represents multiple syndromes.
Some of the big names in medical research have tried to genetically localize schizophrenia and firmly failed to do so, even if it is strongly suspected to be genetic and cause.
Emotional instability is poorly correlated with abrahamic tradition priests.
And so on and so forth. This model really doesn't make sense and ignores quite a bit of known medical knowledge.
ThisIsSin
PC is for progressive-conservative
3hr ago
You're still agreeing that this is a real phenomena just putting it into a different box.
No, the point of doing that is because people who say they have it are usually using it as an excuse to be destructive, and the cost of making a Type I error here is nothing compared to what you'll spend if you make a Type II error here instead and give a bunch of wicked people carte blanche to just make up self-serving nonsense at everyone else's expense (otherwise known as "sufferers of Cluster B disorders").
Naturally, this has a huge selection bias, where people who are just making shit up are overwhelmingly more likely to talk about it, especially if society is currently biased towards making Type II errors in their direction. The word "religious sacrifice" was generally used to refer to this when society contextualized its desires using that lens, which is why people with an inkling of this tend to class atheism and woke as religions (because of the way they justify the benefits of intentionally making those particular Type II errors).
And even then, there are people who can use this 'condition' productively, and there are those who can not. Again, in conditions of societal oversupply [which people without the condition are relatively adept at noticing, at least on a group level] it can be a reasonable strategy to over-reject people on the grounds that they're destructive with that power, or that they don't have enough of the power to actually be worth fully utilizing them.
Much like with words related to gender identity and sexuality, and potentially for the exact same reason, the terms the wise (or more precisely, those who have this condition, or at least those who are fully capable of understanding what it is and how it works) use to talk to each other are dangerous to everyone else when they inevitably fall into the wrong hands.
A big part of having this condition is knowing when, when not, and how to talk about advanced topics to co-sufferers.
SophisticatedHillbilly
3hr ago
I will jump in on the “I’ll take this problem off your hands” idea.
Is your concern here just taxes? If so just sell it and make a reasonable guess as to the basis, file the taxes, stick the money in an investment account, and give it a year or two to see if the agency wants their money. Or just do the zero basis thing and pay full taxes. Either option results in you coming out better than nothing.
DeanoBongino
3hr ago
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by human incompetence. Unfortunately, industrial explosions are rather common (see r/CatastropicFailure for proof). I imagine this is another industrial accident rather than some sort of hostile attack.
My friend is an industrial welder, he's told me our town has multiple large chemical plants which are basically bombs ready to explode.
WhiningCoil
Ghost of Quokka's Future
3hr ago
All of the above, and the more contracts get diverted to small, minority owned businesses, the sloppier it gets. I saw my share of Certified Women/Minority Owned Businesses that just bid on contracts, any contract, and then aggressively staff up with questionable contractors to meet the letter of the contract. More or less the only permanent employees they have are project managers. Everyone else is from temp firms, H1B, and maybe a few private contractors with actual experience for the lead roles.
HereAndGone
3hr ago
But WHY AREN'T THEY TALKING ABOUT THE REALLY REALLY LIKELY RUSSIAN SABOTAGE THAT JUST HAPPENED IN TENNESSEE KILLING 16 AMERICAN CITIZENS AND DESTROYING AN INDUSTRIAL DEFENSE CONCERN?
Because "blast in explosives factory" is not necessarily "OMG, the only possible explanation is Russian sabotage"? Flour mills blow up, too, as do cement plants, and they're not even deliberately making things that go "boom!"
SaltCheck
3hr ago
Regarding the origins of wokeism, recently I chanced upon the concept of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (MTD), it also has a Wikipedia entry. Basically there are people who argue that general wokification of institutions is an internal development of some of the American elite's religion, via Unitarianism and then Unitarian Universalism, and the general "be nice, don't judge, don't harm" morality of Oprah with a deistic God you can occasionally call upon for some encouragement but doesn't demand much, just to be kind, there are many equally valid paths etc. This is of course not the same as the mandatory activism required by woke, not merely a lack of judging etc. But it is the basis for the willingness of simply nice decent people to obey such demands.
I would also consider post-WWII Boomer morality, incl John Lennon Imagine, etc, which doesn't seem all that influenced by the postmodern writers like Foucault or Derrida.
Another set of people point to a merger of a mutated American Civic Religion and German Guilt Pride (the phenomenon where Germans feel superior and proud of how well they have done the processing of the past, the Vergangenheitsbewältigung).
I don't think there needs to be a single origin.
ChickenOverlord
3hr ago
9 times out of 10 I assume it is "woman owned" because the owner gave 51% of ownership to his wife specifically for the purpose of gaming such contracts. My brother-in-law works at a factory where the owner did just that, and I have similar plans if I start a business.
I don't know if that's what it means, but this is certainly an elegant summary that mostly accurately describes what woke-ism is. Woke-ism is just the latest iteration of an ideological structure for justify bigotry against types of people one dislikes, that has been adapted to be palatable to high status people. In the past, it might have been things like "grace of God" or "they're genetically predisposed to being lesser than us and thus belong in the fields" or whatever, but in modern times, it involves narratives around "oppression means that people we dislike are actually each individual, down to the last baby, guilty of [crime]."
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