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Notes -
Who else up watching election results? As of the time of this writing Decision Desk has called all of:
The Virginia governor race in favor of Abigail Spanberger (D).
The Virginia lieutenant governor race in favor of Ghazala Hashmi (D and the first Muslim woman elected to statewide office).
The Virginia Attorney General race in favor of Jay Jones (D lmao).
The New Jersey governor race in favor of Mickie Sherrill (D).
The NYC mayoral race for Zohran Mamdani (D, projecting a majority of the vote too lmao).
Both statewide Georgia Public Service Commissioner races for the Democratic candidates.
Polls are still open in California so no word yet there on the redistricting ballot measure. In other Jay Jones news the house delegate who leaked his texts is on track to lose her re-election, as part of dems winning a trifecta in the Virginia government.
The county by county level results I've seen show pretty much all of the above running ahead of Harris and Spanberger even running ahead of Biden in 2020. Is this indicative of what we might see going forward? Dems had previously overperformed in special elections this year but this is the closest to a general until next years actual federal elections. If these trends hold up not a good sign for Republicans!
How does that fit into a wider context? I see 7/7 Democrat wins. Were there just seven meaningful races? Were they expected to go D regardless of the current trends? Anything special about any of those races?
Jay Jones's win -- and lackluster to nonexistent pushback from the 'moderate centrist's -- is pretty radicalizing.
Don't worry. I'm sure all of our stalwart norms enjoyers will pop in to excoriate the Democrats for liking Jones even more after his comments came out.
I’m absolutely horrified. But much like how Trump won despite his horrific comments, there’s more to elections than merely comments like that. I’m fervently hoping it’s not a sign of things to come.
I’m not totally convinced that this provided an actual positive bump for Jones though. Would need to look into it more.
AIUI, he gained approval with Dem voted, lost more with independents, and came out with a net loss that was still enough to win the election.
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Sure - I'm a "norms enjoyer". Let's have a look at the texts,
I think Jones clearly wishes death upon Republicans (and with the "breeding little fascists" comment, he also harbours an extreme hatred towards White people) And if Gilbert, or any other Republican were assassinated, he would secretly celebrate their deaths.
I think it's a bad thing that the Democrats elected such a person as a State AG. Even though he said he was sorry, the texts were egregiously hateful, so non-progressives will likely see his future uses of discretion as illegitimate, and stuff like this encourages escalation because it makes people feel unsafe.
The only caveat I'd add is that I'm opposed to the leaking of private messages between friends. But the messages were leaked, and we can see them: an immoral source for the evidence does not make the inference drawn any less valid.EDIT: I misunderstood the (non-existent) nature of his relationship with Coyner.Now that he knows it doesn't matter, he'd openly celebrate their deaths.
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AFAIK this even left out the worst part, which is that he doubled down yet again that he hopes their kids are killed, bleeding out in front of them.
Do you have a source for more of the texts? Everything I found online was just the 3 screens in my link.
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This is a lie. They were not friends, unless you think everyone you work with, even in an adversarial manner, is your "friend". This was sheer gloating directly to a political rival on the other team. He directly said these things, while a Democrat state legislator, to another Republican state legislator, while they were both serving, in the aftermath of a 3rd state legislators funeral.
That's the sort of unhinged psychopath that now has top legal authority over me and my growing family of "little fascist".
Right, I had initially thought this was the case because the articles I found never mentioned a long-standing relationship. But I dismissed this as being too insane... it seems not, and the reason there was no mention was because he went out of his way to harass her.
Yes, the enemy of the people are excellent at telling only the truth, but still leaving you believing a lie.
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It might be possible to describe me as a "stalwart norms enjoyer", but I have also quixotically been trying to cultivate a sense of tribalism around my state and regional culture, and and a sense that my "out group" is everyone else.
This is an ongoing process, but it means I am trying to genuinely not care about every outrage that happens in another state on the right or the left. Those are basically foreign countries, and as long as they mostly play by the rules of our constitutional system, they can rot or flourish for all I care about them.
Who cares what the silly foreigners in Dixie or Tidewater or Yankeedom get up to? I don't live in any of those countries, and I'm sure they're better equipped to manage their own affairs than I am. As long as they don't make it my problem if/when things go wrong thanks to their bad policies, why should I care who they elect?
Don't get me wrong, the coresidents of my state can look out at the foreign nations that are part of our federal league and try to learn what to do and what not to do based on the practical experience those foreign nations get up to, but I'm not a busybody. What can an attorney general in Virginia do to my kith and kin in my state? Does he have any real power to harm me, being away in the far off foreign nation of Tidewater?
As long as the dirty Tidewaterers don't start moving to where I live and make things go to shit with their inferior cultural values, I feel safe and secure in my own city.
I do care what the leader of our military league does, because it affects people in the region I actually care about as well. I don't think that makes me a hypocrite.
I overall agree with your attitude and it's one I try to cultivate myself, but living in places that have been overrun by Californians et al. demonstrates the weakness of that position. I could say "what does an AG race in California have to do with me?" and then Harris ends up as VP and running for President. I'm not going to get worked up about, or even think much about, the Virginia AG race other than posting about it here, but I can't be 100% certain it's not going to have eventual unpleasant effects in my life.
Same for Mamdani's election. I couldn't care less about NYC (I think Goldwater's take on the eastern seaboard had some merits), but when NYCers start flooding into my state to escape him, then I have to deal with it. And having dealt with plenty of former New Yorkers, they'll complain incessantly about how bad the city was, but then vote to replicate its problems while complaining about what a shithole cultural desert they've fled to.
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There is no bottom. Jennifer Welch reacting to a clip from Virginia where normie democrats were talking about being glad Charlie Kirk was dead, and might want the Republican Media Person interviewing them to be murder too was right. Murdering Republicans is a winning campaign platform, and Democrats need to get with the message or be left behind.
God help us all.
Would you prefer the Democrats to moderate and then appeal to normies?
The problem is that by NOT moderating, they are appealing to normies. This is where the normies are.
Are you sure about that?
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Well, at least this is a place of reason and decency. I'm sure the respectability centrists among us will pop in to drop some absolutely scathing denounciations of the Virgina Democrat party. I mean, if they didn't then that would be taken as Bayesian evidence that they never sincerely cared about respectability and standards and norms at all, and it was just pure arguments as soldiers and that they're morally more contemptible than men like Donald Trump or George Santos. So I'm sure they'll be by.
Any time now.
Your first post was a low-effort sneer (@gattsuru was at least pointing at something substantive, a specific grievance, you are just sneering). Your second post above is doubling down on the non-specific callouts of non-specific "respectability centrists" whom you are apparently accusing of being morally contemptible hypocrites who don't actually care about standards and decency. As an enforcer of standards and norms here, I am telling you this is a terrible post because all it does is spray piss on the floor. Apparently the eight people who have reported you so far agree.
So you're angry that Jay Jones won. That's fine. Who, exactly, do you think you are directing this venom at? Because just saying, as @gattsuru did, that it's radicalizing that Democrats elected him despite his abhorrent statements is fair commentary. But you seem to be angry and wanting to start a fight with people here.
I'm not going to say "Who?" because we don't actually encourage named call-outs just to start fights, but on the other hand, it's hard to see who you did have in mind. A couple of people have already asked if you mean them. I dunno, maybe you mean me too. Maybe my previous post unambiguously denouncing Charlie Kirk's murder wasn't enough for you. As I predicted to @gattsuru way back when, those of us on the moderate/left side are apparently responsible for denouncing unhinged leftists wherever and whenever they occur or we're assumed to sympathize with them. "Silence is violence"?
Or maybe you just mean anyone who votes Democrat or anyone who believes in norms and decency in politics. Because it's very reasonable and rational to track every terrible thing someone vaguely aligned with your opponent says or does and demand a repudiation or else claim they are responsible too. Just like they do on X, a very rational and reasonable place of respectable politics and decency.
Speaking for myself only, I am not a Virginia voter. Jay Jones seems like a disgusting person to me, and I also think Mamdani winning in New York is bad but neither am I a New York voter. If someone ever asked me "Hey @Amadan what do you think of that shit Jay Jones said?" I would have said "Utterly terrible and if I were a Virginia voter I wouldn't vote for him." But no one did because why should they? If my reputation on the forum is not sufficient to make people believe that I do not in fact endorse or sympathize with people cheering for political violence despite my many, many posts to the contrary, I don't know what to tell you. (Well, I do, but nothing I can type as a mod.)
Of course my response here is not a personal defense. I'm charitably assuming you didn't mean me, though honestly I don't care who you meant. What I do care about is that you are angry-posting and looking for a fight with any targets who present themselves and just vaguely gesturing at a group of people you want to spit on. As much as I also dislike @gattsuru's tactic of linking to months- or years-old threads to start fights over them again, at least he points to a specific thing to take issue with. You just seem to be angry and hoping someone will step up to fight you.
Stop it. Stop this snide, sneering, passive-aggressive baiting.
I don't think this was ever going to start any fights. I left the address line open-ended so it might apply to anyone who thinks it might apply to them. I've had a number of conversations with people here over the last six months where they were very insistent that their norms-loving was very even and non-partisan, they're just unfortunately new enough to have never been recorded denouncing a violation from the left (or have ever heard of one, or been able to think of one when prompted).
This seemed like a really great opportunity for those people to build some credibility.
I would be shocked if anyone started an argument over this. I expect silence instead, which I absolutely plan to remember, gattsuru style, the next time certain people insist they are not just engaged in concern trolling.
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Are you talking about me?
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Who are you even thinking of when you say this? Respectability centrist isn't a label I'd apply to anyone here.
In the event you're thinking of me, Charlie Kirk's assassination was Bad with a capital B, Jay Jones' texts were Bad and should have been disqualifying, if people voted for him as an endorsement of those feelings then that is also abhorrent. I'm not sure the latter is true, but I'm also fairly far removed from Virginia.
Are you ready to denounce the bullshit on your side too, or do you get to dodge that responsibility by not identifying as a 'respectability centrist?' Next time Trump does something bad, shall I demand you pop up in the comments to say something about it?
This is a reasonable complaint but there also needs to term that describes the sort of "polite" anti-confrontationist liberalism ostensibly espoused by publications like The Bulwark and The Atlantic and commentators like David Roberts and Bill Kristol.
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Nah, I know you and would have predicted you taking this stance. You're an actual reasonable person, Chris. I was thinking more of magicalkittycat and wanderinginthewilderness and a few others, newish accounts who get so deeply concerned about civility and norms violations from the right. In my discussions with them, they keep insisting that it's a general principle and they definitely apply it generally, even if they struggle to name a single example. Well, this is a perfect opportunity to build credibility on that topic, isn't it?
And yes, I do try to denounce, not "bullshit", but "actual psycho shit" from my own side. I think it's important to set those kinds of bounds.
I do not acknowledge this as an accurate summary of my positions. Even if I did, I don't see what Jay Jones's texts have to do with "civility" and "norms violation" - they are, in fact, leaked texts, not public statements. As for "struggling to name a single example" of bad behavior on the Left, I don't know how many times I have to reply that I am against cancel culture. Like, generally. Point me to any example of a harassment campaign against a random private citizen based on their politics, I am going to be against that. But again, I wouldn't term the substance of my objections "concern about civility and norms violations". I care about the fact that such methods are wrong and harmful, not that they are indecorous in some kind of abstract way.
Incidentally, I really don't care, but it's Wanderer, not Wandering.
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So are you a norm enjoyer or not? Let’s hear the denunciations of Trump and co.
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For a passive that aggressive, you might as well drop @names.
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