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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   3000 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for February 5, 2023

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Mottizens who have dated: what percentage of your partners would you say were Marriage Material? How many Marriage Material partners did you have a shot with?

I'll define Marriage Material here as any of: you would have wanted to marry them OR wish you would have married them OR you feel in an objective sense they "deserved" marriage even if you didn't really want to.

Partner and had a shot with I'll mostly leave to you. I'd say anyone after age 16 with whom you had a romantic relationship that lasted more than 5 dates or with whom you made love while in a romantic relationship. But I feel like that inquiry is more fact specific and context dependent.

For me: it's 5/25 I'd say could have or should have married, including my wife who I did actually marry. A rate of 20%, and five real opportunities across my youth. I could fiddle one or two either way, but after that it's a steep dropoff into people I couldn't imagine being with today.

Low sample size, but 2 out of 2…so 100%?

Not sure if I got very lucky or what.

1/12 for me with my current partner being the 1. I’m lucky(?) in the sense that I’ve dated quite a bit but I have another regret about not marrying my previous partners. I do regret some of the ways I acted, but not that we didn’t end up together.

The one partner that may have qualified left me because I didn’t break a stated boundary, which I found stupid enough to disqualify her. Basically she told me the whole “I don’t want to do X my parents would never approve,” so I didn’t. Turns out that’s what she wanted the whole time.

Overall most people I’ve dated have been highly depressed and/or anxious, like myself. Even my current partner. I hate the modern medical distinctions and think they’re full of holes, but I do think it takes a neurodivergent person to truly bond with another one.

Realistically, yup, I was always going to get married young. Too much of a puppy dog. Just lucky I was picked up by the right one, in the end.

My first impulse is always to avoid these sorts of threads but it occurs to me that I might be remiss in doing so. Hopefully something in here might help out the younger guys.

I'm a middle aged male married with kids. I've had maybe half a dozen or so one night stands and random summer flings in addition to 3 relationships before my current partner that I would consider "serious". Of those the first was absolutely marriage material. We knew each other in High-school but didn't start dating until after we had both graduated. Relationship ended because we were both young and dumb. She'd shipped off to college, I'd shipped off to the military and neither of us was really interested in putting in the effort to make the long distance thing work, we parted amicably and remain close friends, but with the benefit of hindsight she is "the one that got away".

The second is one that I thought was marriage material but all my friends (including the girl described above) kept telling me was a evil psychotic bitch that I should get the fuck away from. I ignored them because she was hot and the sex was amazing. At the end of the day it turns out that I was thinking with the wrong head. She is now my "psycho stalker ex wife".

The third is one that I find hard to classify because while I really liked her, we were both coming out of pretty abusive relationships (in my case the previously mentioned "psycho stalker ex" and in her case a guy that used to beat on her) and were both each others "rebound". She was sweet and there are a lot of things about that relationship that I wish I had handled differently but in the end she cheated on me and in response I cut and run.

Current partner/waifu was the room-mate/bestie of one of my friend's GF, and the two of them basically conspired to get us together. She wasn't exactly "my type" being bubbly perky and petite as opposed to the "leggy femme fatale" sort I usually go for. But we got along well and became friends with benefits. After about a year I was looking at relocating for a job and called her with the intention of cutting things off, only for her to reply with "I've got something I need to talk to you about to". We met for coffee, I told her that I was leaving town, and she told me she was pregnant. After a brief moment of panic I asked her if she would like to come with me.

Edit to add: that was about 9 years ago now, and we've been together since.

That's sweet. Nice to hear there are still decent people out there.

This post made me appreciate why you have such a strong brand on here that you get brought up in conversations you aren't even involved in all the time.

Please don't take this as fishing or trying to undermine because I'm actually kind of curious, how so? what was it that stuck out?

Quite distinctly different than all the other stories here. A very distinct voice and character to it. Read the other replies, just focusing on content you're the only guy with an ill considered marriage and a psycho ex wife to show for it, or a shotgun wedding from knocking a girl up. I don't mean any judgment, but you have different sins than most of the other posters. Different sins than me, mine are mostly of the "timing" variety of your first relationship.

0 out of 5

what percentage of your partners would you say were Marriage Material?

If you're asking if they were MM for me personally, I'd say about 50% of the guys I dated were. (that's about 7 out of 14.) I think the other half weren't unmarriable for someone else but they weren't compatible with me.

How many Marriage Material partners did you have a shot with?

Mmmm, ten years ago, I didn't have a shot with any of them, but these days I think I have a good shot with almost all of them. (I attribute this to being more experienced, more confident, and more honest with myself about what I'm looking for)

1/2, with my husband being the 1.

As a serial dater/fling-haver, unmarried at 33, the real question is whether I myself am marriage material, lol.

Very rough count I would say 1 of 13, based on your standard. There are certainly a couple of others where I think I could have made a reasonably happy married life if I had to; but only the one that I feel quite certain about.

I would say most of them are probably Marriage Material for someone else; that is, they are marriageable people. Just not for me. Oddly I think only 2 of them are in fact married currently. (Including the one I really missed out on.)

I feel like my values and lifestyle have changed a great deal since I was a teenager and even since my mid-20s; so maybe it's for the best that I didn't marry those women of my past. But then, if I had, I'm sure I would have grown into a different person in some way anyway.

I think it's about ~3/20 for me. Some of the women in the Not Marriage Material category are very nice people that I have nothing but fond memories of, but they just weren't smart enough to be someone that I'd want to spend my remaining years with. A couple of them were actually pretty terrible people, but came around at times that I needed an ego boost, or that I was desperate enough to tolerate terribleness. The three that were in the Marriage Material group:

  • Girlfriend that I was with for nearly three years during grad school and the beginning of my postdoc. Foreign, very religious, sweet demeanor, very attractive. She's probably a fantastic wife and mother. We eventually had too many conflicts - language, religion, her dislike of my hobbies, me generally being an asshole for no good reason at that age, and more. If we'd met at a different time, I probably would have figured it out, although I suspect I wouldn't have been happy. She deserved to be treated better and I hope she has been.

  • Brief fling with a girl that worked in my lab for the summer. Genuinely amazing person, absolutely hilarious, very kind. I have nothing but positive things to say about her, but she went back to Scotland after summer and we didn't try to make that work.

  • My wife. Marrying her was among the easiest decisions I've ever made in my life. We've been together over a decade and have never had an actual argument. I think I could reroll life many times and never find someone that I fit with more easily.

@FiveHourMarathon, at what age did you notice "marriage material" becoming the majority?

Having dated at ages 23/24 it felt as though the women I saw had a lot of growing up to do.

I wish I could offer some optimism to you, but honestly if anything it's.the opposite. Thinking through the list, the temporal edge cases were nice girls I knew when they were 18 who had problems at 25 or 30, do I count them because they might not have married that Schmuck or gotten into drugs if they had married me at 18? (I leaned No) I can't actually think of anyone who I dated at 22 who "grew up" into a good partner. I'd say things like maturity, chastity, employability improve; but a girl that will help you clean up after a party at 18 is still a girl who will help you with the dishes at 30, while the spoiled princess at 18 is probably worse at 30. Just anecdotes.

I think the best thing you can do is marry young and grow together. But that's just one opinion, at the same time my parents married when they were older and have had a fantastic marriage (pending opinions on their weirdo son).

I'd say things like maturity, chastity, employability improve; but a girl that will help you clean up after a party at 18 is still a girl who will help you with the dishes at 30, while the spoiled princess at 18 is probably worse at 30. Just anecdotes.

This matches my experience. The other thing I'd note is that I'm in my late 30s now and I always find it odd when people my age say things like, "I could never date a woman that young" with regard to some cute twentysomething that's just out of college. I met my wife when she was that age and I suspect that I'd have just as high of an opinion of her if we'd met when I was ten years older than I was at the time. People kind of are who they are by that age with only incremental improvements or decline to be had.

I don't think it has to do with the personality, or values, of a young person. It's more about the probable lifestyle mismatch with that much of an age gap. I once had a college buddy observe that at 21 he would be out drinking late, wake up early to go play rugby, go to classes, and just generally have a full day (and then stay up late drinking and repeat for the next day). But at 31 he would sleep in, spend time working quietly at his doctoral studies, and have a glass of wine by the fire before going to bed early (and felt that to be an excellent day). He was still the same person, but his lifestyle dramatically changed from his 20s to his 30s. And I have found that generally to be the case for most people.

I'm married now, but when I was dating my wife in my early 30s I wouldn't have wanted to date a woman in her early 20s. Not because they were bad people or anything, but because we would've likely been in totally different places in life and had a hard time relating to each other's activities.

The other thing I'd note is that I'm in my late 30s now and I always find it odd when people my age say things like, "I could never date a woman that young" with regard to some cute twentysomething that's just out of college. I met my wife when she was that age and I suspect that I'd have just as high of an opinion of her if we'd met when I was ten years older than I was at the time. People kind of are who they are by that age with only incremental improvements or decline to be had.

Getting old sucks. People have to believe there's some upside to being uglier, having less energy, and losing the wide blue ocean potential of youth. Some people get better with age. Others get worse. As a rule, you accrue status, skills, and capital while otherwise degrading, and your human qualities remain the same.

And then eventually you're writing a letter Ndugu, like...

5 of 6? I feel like I don't understand the question, or my dating was way out of the norm even here.

I'm not sure I understand why would one accept a date with someone who didn't meet that third criteria even if they found they weren't compatible.

2/~9?

One out of one.

Yeah same. I was both very unlucky in that it took me forever to be able to actually get a girlfriend, but also very lucky in that the first one was a keeper and I married her.

I'm surprised at the number of romantic snipers out here.

Less charitably, there's probably a larger than usual proportion of nerds here, people who are morbidly terrified of the world of dating and are both less willing to date casually and more willing to settle down with the first romantic success.

Or that the question is worded wierdly. I had a number of sexual liaisons before I met my wife but I didn't ever really date.

What usually happened was that I met someone at a party -> we hit it off and went home together -> spend the night/weekend together -> possibly meet up at later weekend to do much the same -> not pursue things further.

Having a number of essentially ONS i understand (novelty and trying things out with someone) but serially dating/marrying? I could understand someone staying with their first partner out of fear of not getting another (and learning how it's like and how to be in a relationship) but people that have dated like 5 people for multiple years by 30 without locking things down? That seems so insecure/dysfunctional if there isn't very good reasons for the breakups.

How would you phrase it? Sexual partners seems odd to me, many of mine I have no idea whether they would have made good wives or not. From what you said, I don't think your one or two night stands would have given you much insight either. Sex isn't a good indicator of seriousness. I tried to leave that to each person up determine when they'd have that judgment.

I would phrase it as how many of the people you had a shot with did you consider to be marriage material. Id also define what "marriage material" constitutes and from whose perspective.

The way you qualified things now can make people seem like puritans or losers even if they are the opposite.

As for whether you can tell, I think you can from way earlier than 5 dates. Furthermore what I'm referring to are not tinder dates with completely unknown people. If I meet someone at a party, odds are that I'm at least somewhat familiar with who they are, at least indirectly, even if we haven't talked much at length previously. It isn't so much the sex itself that gives you information as the increased closeness, spending time in their home and learning a bit more about their personal familial and financial situation that does it.

If I go on a "tinder date" then maybe but even then I'd say you probably know before date 5. The issue is that (some)people don't want to think about this stuff, not that it's impossible to tell early. I've been able to tell from the first meeting with friends girlfriends whether things are going to last or not. The issue isn't figuring it out, the issue is whether you're lying to yourself or not.

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Mrs FiveHour once described our dating process as I was like a rabbit running across a field, and she was like a hawk waiting for me to break cover before she swooped down on me and sunk her talons in.

Funny, I’m the exact opposite. I invited my partner out for coffee and she didn’t even know it was a date until I kissed her. Luckily it worked out.

1/1 given your criteria.

I think this is a dangerous topic to dwell on, at least because regrets are weird...

Agreed. Which is why I'm asking it on here rather than in person, for fear I'll never be able to talk to David and Melissa the same way again, or something like that. What brought the question up for me was watching an old episode of Sex and the City with my wife, where a character asserts that one only gets two "great loves" in one's life, so because she whiffed on the first she has to try harder on her second chance; the naughty implication being that the protagonist has used up her two great loves and is still single, meaning she is doomed! Because I watch RomComs like a male autist, I became curious what the average number of good partners a person like me (a modal mottizen) has a shot with in their life.

This is an obvious corollary response to people asking "Where have all the good men/women gone?" Not just "Well I got married so I was able to find one, you can too" but "Across my twenties I had 3-5 opportunities to marry someone decent, you can expect to have about that many shots if you're conscientiously looking." On average, should I advise a 22 year old that they have three (3) bites at the apple? Seven (7)? One (1) so you better take it when you get it? Obviously it is one hundred percent incidental and individual, but I'm curious how the averages play.

I'd also note that for me, anyway, the regret aspect looks more like "Wow, I should have been more careful with A/J/S's hearts, they deserved better" than "I would be happier if I weren't with Mrs. FiveHour." I'm very confident I made the best choice for me, but trading life stories, I feel bad about some ex partners. And of course, my wife and I never tire of counterfactuals when we're stoned: what would my life be like if she had gone to Penn State and I had married that Black girl who has an MfA and teaches poetry now? What would her life be like if UVA had come through with a scholarship for me and she had married her best friend who spent our college years mooning over her? Would I be an evangelical if I had married A? Would she have converted to Greek Orthodoxy if she had married G? It's fascinating, especially because we married young, so subtracting each other from our lives means starting over at the character creation screen at 19.

By those criteria, 1/3, ie. my wife being the one.

I'm 1 for 1 so far. :)

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