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PutAHelmetOn
Recovering Quokka
19hr ago
Yes, discomfort with white solidarity often manifests as labeling it "racism," but it's not clear this can said to be a cause.
An example cause: Historically, white solidarity has lead to genocide, so people are uncomfortable with it.
TIRM
19hr ago
why does the concept of white solidarity make you uncomfortable?
In common discourse, no one would say "white solidarity", they refer to this concept as "racism". I suppose most people would be uncomfortable with something they pattern match to open proud racism.
functor
8hr ago
They have effectively beaten NATO in a conventional land war. They are fighting an enemy in which every operation is run by NATO, the equptment is NATO, thousands of NATO mercs are running things on the ground.
While Israel and the US can't take an area the size of a municipality in Gaza against enemies with no resources Russia took the area the size of Denmark in a week against an enemy with 3x larger force.
RandomRanger
Just build nuclear plants!
13hr ago
Anyone else reading that excerpt and thinking 'Based'? Wouldn't it be excellent to carve out a new artificial world, make better animals and plants according to one's wishes? Live as long as one likes without regard for age?
Not the specifics of perfectly cleaning the world, that could take many angles. One might make a jungle of talking animals, or an endless lived-in leafy suburbia or a Willy Wonka wonderland or all of those things simulated within a ball of computronium. But isn't that the logical endpoint of ever increasing mastery and control of the world? What's the alternative, stasis?
I can sense that many people don't like this vision but isn't this what we're doing, irregardless of objections? Unless you think 'no people mustn't live forever' or 'we mustn't have children' or 'technological advancement must stop' then you endorse indefinite growth in numbers and in power of worldshaping and knowledge ("All stable processes we shall predict. All unstable processes we shall control"), so eventually something like this will happen.
aceventura
16hr ago
I would rather have no racial politics at all.
ThomasdelVasto
Κύριε, ποίησόν με ὄργανον τῆς ἀγάπης σου
17hr ago
This worldview would seem to conflict with HBD theories. Indeed, one would have to conclude that whites are an inferior race. Guatemalans in their "third-world s***hole" don't just sit around despairing, they cross multiple borders and look for work in a country where they can't even speak the language, while white men who got laid off in their rust-belt factory towns twiddle their thumbs and inject fentanyl, unable to compete with said Guatemalans.
While the tone of your post is a bit aggressive, I do strongly agree with this line of reasoning. I've always been skeptical of hard HBD because I grew up in a rural white town, where there was so much despair and economic struggling.
In my opinion culture is OBVIOUSLY the bigger factor than genes or IQ. And the rise and current downfall of most whites is actually the perfect example. White people used to rule the world with an iron fist, we roamed the seas and dominated everything we saw. Then our culture changed over time, and despite our very similar genetics to our ancestors of a few hundred years ago, we have... the problems we have now.
JarJarJedi
22hr ago
Technically, maybe, but in common usage "dissident" is usually applied to someone who is persecuted by an oppressive, usually totalitarian, government, for their political views. Not somebody who is out of power because his policies and views disgust 99.9% of the population, but still is free to publicly proclaim and propagandize them.
It's like people claiming that since Arabs are Semitic people, opposing Hamas is "akshually anti-Semitic!" Yeah, no, that's not how it works, "akshually".
functor
7hr ago
Israel killed as many civilians in two months as Russians killed in 3.5 years of fighting against a far more competent opponent.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
19hr ago
but the little nugget about "up to a third of programming is now done by AI" does seem to be a straw in the wind. Yes? No? Just means they're not hiring new junior staff?
Jevon's paradox applies to programmers.
atokenliberal6D_4
Defender of Western Culture
19hr ago
Not the OP, but I'll bite too: I am uncomfortable with any powerful enough identity group whose membership is assigned rather than chosen trying to express solidarity in a way that excludes people not of the group. This tends to lead to very anti-meritocratic outcomes. "Whites" just seems to be the most powerful such group in the current day.
I would also be uncomfortable with the concept of solidarity for following identity groups in order:
- Han Chinese,
- Muslims (even though this is pushing it with the assigned rather than chosen bit),
- Hindus,
though there's a significant drop-off in my level of worry each step down. This is also based on factual beliefs about the world that I could easily be convinced out of with the right evidence.
I would not be concerned with solidarity among Navajo. Sure this is bad in theory, but it's not really likely to have any significant material impacts to anyone so it's not worth wasting effort on. Maybe I would feel differently if I lived in northeastern Arizona however---I don't really know what the situation is like there.
rae
20hr ago
There’s also big differences outside of the Hajnal line in Europe itself. Slovenia is a prosperous country with well functioning infrastructure on track to surpass the UK in terms of GDP per capita while Serbia is a poor corrupt autocracy, even if both were part of Yugoslavia and are ethnically south Slavs.
I don’t know any circumstances where HBD is a better explanation than culture and history.
WhiningCoil
35m ago
If there was a cost-free way to make bees not suffer at all while farmed, wouldn't you press the button?
Because nothing is cost-free, and it's this sort of magical thinking that walks people straight into the nightmare world.
If the minds can't support themselves economically, they obvious incentive is to pull the plug on them, so you don't have to pay them UBI anymore.
"Incentives" are not the be-all and end-all of matters in life.
The police are incentivized to have high levels of crime to justify their salaries. You don't see them running coaching sessions on bank robbery.
Oncologists have "incentives" to keep you alive and cancer-ridden indefinitely to get that sweet insurance money. I know plenty, and I'm afraid that's not an accurate description of any of them.
Then the incentive becomes: manipulate the emulations to sign away the rights to their investments, and then pull the plug.
The number of cemeteries that dig up their clients and sell them for parts is, to the best of my knowledge, small.
The number of investment firms and banks that snatch the fees of the recently departed to spend on their whims, is, as far as I'm aware, rather limited.
Cloud service providers don't, as a general rule, steal all your data and sell them to your competitors.
The kind of organization that would run mind uploads would likely be a cross between all of the above.
Do you know why millions of people were kept in chattel slavery throughout history? Because there was a good business argument for it. Even the most abusive sheikh in Qatar doesn't bus in dozens of kaffirs for the sole purpose of beating them up for the joy of it. The majority of people who hate you are more than content to end the matter with a bullet in your brain, and not to keep you around to torture indefinitely.
Besides, I'd like you to consider the possibility, however controversial it might sound, that people and systems sometimes do the right thing even when the first-order effects aren't to their "best interests". And perhaps we might have cops and politicians in some form to help even the scales.
I do not grant any claims of "the singularity" happening a single shred of legitimacy, unless it comes with solid supporting evidence.
In that case, I don't see the point of having this discussion at all.
Or are the horses we do keep there for our amusment?
Yes? The population of horses crashed during the Industrial Revolution, and has only recently recovered, driven almost entirely by recreational demand.
Eupraxia
Shut up and quantify
10hr ago
I can't speak for him, but I think that in general the particular aversion to white solidarity comes from the understanding that ingroup preference necessarily induces outgroup hostility; it is impossible to love your neighbor without (at least somewhat) hating the outsider. Considering that whites are by far the most dangerous race on earth, with a proven track record of BTFOing everyone else, it's completely reasonable for white solidarity to be seen as more of a threat than other races' ingroup preferences; if you lived next door to an 800-pound gorilla, you wouldn't want to give it any ideas about how hungry he is and how tasty you look.
RandomRanger
Just build nuclear plants!
12hr ago
It can be true that Microsoft is replacing workers with AI, slimming down a bloated management apparatus and that they're also hiring more cheap H1Bs to watch over the AIs or for internal factional reasons.
I may be in the minority here but I still believe that AI is a big, big thing and advancing fast. No plateau, just steady growth and new avenues to advance down. Two recent papers.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.24119
Using SPIRAL, self-play on zero-sum games produces reasoning capabilities that transfer broadly. Training Qwen3-4B-Base on Kuhn Poker alone achieves 8.6% improvement on math and 8.4% on general reasoning, outperforming SFT on 25,000 expert game trajectories. Analysis reveals that this transfer occurs through three cognitive patterns: systematic decomposition, expected value calculation, and case-by-case analysis. Multi-game training (TicTacToe, Kuhn Poker, Simple Negotiation) further enhances performance as each game develops distinct reasoning strengths. Applying SPIRAL to a strong reasoning model (DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Qwen-7B) can still lead to 2.0% average improvement. These results demonstrate that zero-sum games naturally develop transferable reasoning capabilities, highlighting a promising direction for autonomous reasoning development.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.03335
we propose a new RLVR paradigm called Absolute Zero, in which a single model learns to propose tasks that maximize its own learning progress and improves reasoning by solving them, without relying on any external data. Under this paradigm, we introduce the Absolute Zero Reasoner (AZR), a system that self-evolves its training curriculum and reasoning ability by using a code executor to both validate proposed code reasoning tasks and verify answers, serving as an unified source of verifiable reward to guide open-ended yet grounded learning. Despite being trained entirely without external data, AZR achieves overall SOTA performance on coding and mathematical reasoning tasks, outperforming existing zero-setting models that rely on tens of thousands of in-domain human-curated examples. Furthermore, we demonstrate that AZR can be effectively applied across different model scales and is compatible with various model classes.
Two major papers on fully autonomous learning, in coding and reasoning via playing simple games respectively. Admittedly both are on a small scale, using small models and little compute. The former used maybe $1000 worth of compute when the big boys have billions to spend. However, recursive AI self-improvement isn't science fiction, it's eminently possible, presumably it's being done right now on a large scale.
Are people really going to be better at programming than a machine that has thousands, millions of years of experience? Surely not, just like they're not going to be better at chess or go or starcraft.
aceventura
17hr ago
What right-wingers like Auron underappreciate is how vast the chasm is between their version of the right and IRL conservatism. The majority of Trump voters (let alone the 'independents' who have been deciding our recent elections by flip-flopping between Obama, Trump, and Biden) don't think about immigrants, nationalism, or even gays, in the same way they do.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
18hr ago
I mean just to make the point from the perspective of Russia, this is to them much more like the civil war — rogue states decide to break away and the Russians not being willing to allow them to leave and to make alliances with rival powers. The color revolution to us looks like they chose us, but to Russia it looks like a hostile state being formed on its border, potentially armed with weapons supplied by its enemies. If Puerto Rico declared independence, allied with Russia and started buying Russian weapons, we might well invade too.
aceventura
20hr ago
Hygiene
Europeans don't exactly have a good reputation around the world when it comes to hygiene.
ZanarkandAbesFan
21hr ago
Occasionally the US tries to do something that actually prioritizes American interests over Israel's, the Israel lobby usually nixes this in the end: the Iran deal for instance.
I mean, the US has never invested ground forces in taking out any military group directly opposing Israel. There are/have been so many of these I'm not sure you could just label them occasional incidences of America not prioritizing Israeli interests at this point.
Merely shutting off aid would be catastrophic for their military,
I'm not sure you understand the actual numbers involved. US annual aid to Israel is $3.8 billion, not a small number, but less than 1% of Israel's GDP. That number has gone up during the recent hostilities, but not to the extent that it would be a catastrophe for Israel to have to pay upfront.
who relies on US provided weapons, satellites, communications and USAF for air defence.
Was this last bit about the USAF some sort of typo?
I'm not dogmatic on whether it's arm-twisting or owning hearts and minds, there's a mix of both going on.
@ArjinFerman There you go.
Chrisprattalpharaptr
Ave Imperaptor
3hr ago
Well I hope you voted to acquit or you have some terrible karma.
self_made_human
C'est la vie
7hr ago
I wouldn't call the history of every invention to be "very little reason".
I guess that's why, after the invention of the hamster wheel, we've got indentured slaves running in them to power our facilities. Enslaving human mind uploads is in a similar ballpark of eminently sensible economic decisions.
How do these emulations get the resources to pay the companies for the service of protection? Presumably they work, no?
Not necessarily. I think you're well aware of my concerns about automation-induced unemployment, with most if not all humans becoming economically unproductive. Mind uploads are unlikely to change that.
What humans might have instead are UBI or pre-existing investments on which they can survive. Even small sums held before a Singularity could end up worth a fortune due to how red-hot the demand for capital would be. They could spend this on backup copies of themselves if that wasn't a service governments provided from popular demand.
By getting more clients? If yes, why compete for the limited amount of clients, when you can just copy-paste them? We're already seeing a similar dynamic with meatsack humans and immigration, it strikes me as extremely naive to think it would happen less if we make it easier and cheaper.
So you happen to see an enormous trade in illegal horses, to replace honest local tractors in the fields? I suppose that's one form of "mule" hopping the borders. No. Because, in both scenarios, they're obsolete, and little that you can do to make mind uploads cheaper won't apply to normal AI, which already start at an advantage.
Slavery ensures profit, torture ensures compliance.
Well, it's an awful shame that we have pretty handy "slaves" already, in the form of ChatGPT and its descendants. Once again, if you have tractors, the market for horse-rustling falls through the bottom.
Jiro
9hr ago
I don't like how animals are treated, even on non-factory farms, and I don't like the idea of killing a conscious being for what basically amounts to taste pleasure.
How can you consistently believe this, yet not want to minmax animal suffering? Surely if you are vegan because of animal suffering, it follows that you want to reduce animal suffering as much as possible. And "utilitarian suffering min-maxing" is how you figure out what course of action reduces it as much as possible.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
12hr ago
Your report was obnoxiously unfunny and we have to deal with enough spurious and bad-faith reports on posts.
Normally I'd leave it at that, but you have a history of this kind of obnoxious trolling, so banned for a day. Knock it off.
phailyoor
13hr ago
Certainly this can be argued for certain aspects of behavior. For example, educated professional blacks are more likely to commit violent crime than the most impoverished White trash in Appalachia. It all depends on exactly what you're trying to disposit. This can be extended to argue that such White trash is somehow "superior" to more economically advantaged individuals of other races, though I would not personally agree with this conclusion. Anyways this still only applies to groups and even the most hardcore HBD believers would also accept the existence of individual freak exceptions to the rule.
Does it? The anti-HBD side as you define it could just as well say that the pro-HBDers have gone quiet because their guy is already god-emperor, so they no longer need intellectual grounding to "construct systems of white supremacy" instead of getting on with oppressing non-whites directly.
(Of course, I don't believe either side of the meta-debate.)
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