site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   912 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for January 25, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Well, maybe we've had enough about European-American relations for the past week. Let's talk about European-European relations!

We know a lot about gender imbalances in China, hikikomori in Japan, 4B in Korea, and Americans screeching in existential terror at every element of the opposite sex on social media. It seems like many of the most developed parts of the world are struggling to maintain stable relationship norms, and men and women are opting out of relationships altogether at unprecedented rates. That obviously prompts the question: what about Europe?

Europeans: how do you feel about the dating and marriage situation in your part of the world? Do men and women generally couple up ok? Have dating apps caused damage? Are people isolated and on social media, or do romantic connections and friendships form more easily? More philosophically, do men and women in your country generally feel the opposite sex is trustworthy, or do they see them as more dangerous than helpful? Are there tensions over gender norms, or have people where you're from settled on a new accommodation for the relationship between men and women?

For gen Z, the situation is increasingly hookup focused. Some people are well suited for that and are thriving with an abundance of willing partners. Many pretend to be fine with it, but seem like they would be doing much better in a culture where the purpose of going out was to find a life long partner. You have to practice a degree of detachment. Sex is supposed to be an enjoyable activity that does not necessarily mean anything in the long run, and you are not supposed to fall for someone who you have only spent a single night with. That someone chose to sleep with you does not at all indicate that they won't spend next Friday night with someone else, and you should be able to mostly shrug it off. Expectations of exclusivity easily take a few weeks to months to develop.

Since sex often comes before love, being sexually attractive is extremely important. You sleep with each other and then you see if something develops. This is important, because it runs contrary to what one might otherwise expect: That you find someone with good husband/wife qualities, and then date them to see if attraction develops over time.

This heavily favors the charismatic, outgoing, and self confident people who are good at emotional decoupling. It also helps explain why going to the gym is so popular. Those whose attractive qualities are less immediately obvious, or who want to build a closer connection before sex, tend to stay single for quite a long time even if they are actively looking. Admittedly, I have no idea if this was always the case.

I am not sure if dating apps have done damage. The main issue is the lack of places for young people to organically meet and pair up. Apps, parties, and night clubs are the most common avenues. If you for some reason do not like those, then your options are extremely limited. To the point where even those who dislike going out to party will still do so, as they perceive it as the main way of partnering up.

Tensions over gender norms mostly exist online, or in very left wing environments. Showing distaste for the opposite gender in public is usually frowned upon, especially in social gatherings. Like self-made-human says, this is considered normal. It is something most people accept and deal with, even if they privately prefer things to be different.

"Alexa, describe my personal romantic hellscape, be sure to tailor it to demand the exact opposite of my personal preferences as the price for entrance."

The main issue is the lack of places for young people to organically meet and pair up.

Interesting that this isn't just a problem in the U.S. For some reason I assumed that the social scene for 20 and 30 somethings was still somewhat hopping in Europe. The seem to brag about walkable communities and friendlier social norms. At least parts of it.

I have bent over backwards to try and host spaces for people to hang out casually and meet without much expectations but also clear space to flirt, and somehow I virtually NEVER (like, once or twice in the past year?) get invited to spaces hosted by other people.

So maybe a combination of fewer 'third spaces,' (or the third spaces being too costly for young folk!) people not having spaces large enough to host others, AND a generalized decline in 'hosting' as a skill people develop at all?

Interesting that this isn't just a problem in the U.S. For some reason I assumed that the social scene for 20 and 30 somethings was still somewhat hopping in Europe. The seem to brag about walkable communities and friendlier social norms. At least parts of it.

It depends a lot on your age. 20 somethings and 30 somethings don't mix all that much. What I described above mostly holds true for those in their mid twenties and younger, with more options for those between 30 and 50. For some reason, young people are just not that interested in doing stuff organized by people much older than them, or in hobbies that require them to follow a set schedule. Older folks will happily invite younger people into their spaces, but when mostly everyone is at least 10 years older than you (or the activity is dominated by one gender), there isn't a lot of room for romance.

That said, you can still find mixed-gender activites with room for socializing, even if you are young. However, they can be few and far between, require more initiative to find, or are specific to certain hobbies. And even then, the hookup-centered nature of things persists.

So maybe a combination of fewer 'third spaces,' people not having spaces large enough to host others, AND a generalized decline in 'hosting' as a skill people develop at all?

This sounds about right. I am not sure people necessarily perceive the value in developing hosting skills, and those who do, might be disappointed with how hard it can be to get people to commit. It is a shame though, as good hosts are generally pretty popular within their communities.

For some reason, young people are just not that interested in doing stuff organized by people much older than them, or in hobbies that require them to follow a set schedule

I've seen a bit of this. Millenials could be flakey but generally apologetic if they miss something they said they'd go to.

Gen Z just goes radio silent.

I am not sure people necessarily perceive the value in developing hosting skills, and those who do, might be disappointed with how hard it can be to get people to commit.

YES.

For whatever reason (especially for the young) they want to maintain optionality all the way up to the last minute.

If I were a less disciplined (and stubborn) person I'd have given up hosting anyone but immediate friends like a year ago.

And hell, the reason I'm willing to host is to make it cheap enough that younger folks don't have to worry about coming out and running up a tab!

I'm never completely sure if my competition are events hosted by others or literally just watching streaming shows at home and Doordash.

Depends a lot on where you look.

Urban academic is depressing, mostly because of the combination of the gender mismatch (almost 2x as many women as men nowadays AFAIK, certainly at least at my medically oriented university) and most women nevertheless expecting their partner to be university educated as a bare minimum, and there is also aggressive political filtering. There are still plenty of well-adjusted couples of course, but also just many clearly unhappy single women, often with blatant dysfunctional coping behaviour. A lot of hostility/resentment towards men in general, too. Gender norms around kids are also a bit drama-heavy; The women all want to theoretically continue their career while simultaneously in practice staying home with the kids as long as possible. And when it predictably doesn't work out, somehow the man is at fault. All very typically western cosmopolitan, I guess. The men aren't perfect, either, of course; but what strikes me is that the worst are primarily egotistical (sleeping around, generally doing stuff with no concern for their partner), while the worst women are self-hurting dysfunctional.

The urban poor, of course, are awful, but they're awful in every other way as well, so it's not particularly surprising.

Rural middle class, at least where I'm from and from what I heard from a few acquaintances' country background, is doing well. Dating is still mostly from work, partying or extended friend groups; App is the option of last resort and not held in high regard. For an example, my main old school clique is 15 people, of which 2 seem headed for permanent bachelorhood (one of which almost surely is a closeted gay, why he doesn't come out is a mystery to us all, we really don't mind), 1 has had relationship but I'm not sure currently, everyone else is in a stable relationship (well, one is an incorrigible philanderer, but his current relationship has been a few years now, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt). We have 12 kids now afaik, as usual mostly the girls but the guys are also moving after. We're early thirties, so no worries from me that we'll hit 2+ TFR. In my second old school clique, 4 people, everyone has been in stable relationships for ages now and two of the others just now had their first child, too. They also intend to have more so again no worries. I've lost contact with most of my acquaintances from school of course, but if I randomly see them they almost always have a partner and often have kids, too. Gender norms are pretty easy here, women can do what they want, but when the kids come they want to be mom anyway.

But this is millenials. I have little idea how gen z is doing, to be honest.

Is such a lopsided sex ratio usual for a medical university?

At least in germany, medicine as a whole has been 60%+ female, tendency upwards. Specialty study programs tend to be similarly, or even more lopsided: I studied a special "applied math in biology and medicine" course, which was around 20 women to 4 guys (admittedly partially due to many guys dropping out in the first semester). Women don't like math, but at least a few are good at it, and if you give it a focus on something they actually do like... The same goes for several specialty courses we have here on medical / biophysics or -informatics, even engineering, all of which naively may sound male-dominated, but from my impression were also 60%+ female. Just attach "medical" (or "media", for that matter) to any course name, and the women will flock to you, apparently.

Then you have the degrees which used to be Ausbildung, such as midwifery, and some other such as nutritional biology, which combine very low standards and a lopsided gender ratio.

I have a small friend group in Germany and it's not too different from USA. One lucky guy, that found his match in university, proposed at 27 and is on track for decent family life. The rest are a mix of being completely given up on dating (not actively looking) to perpetually being in short term relationships. One difference from Americans is disdain for dating apps. My german friends see use of them as a signal of promiscuity, so women on there are completely discarded from being long term relationship candidates (short term is fine though). I don't know if this view is unique to just the people I know, but it's an interesting distinction.

Does Scotland count? I can tell you that the social fabric is scuffed, dude.

While the actual numbers are probably lower, it feels like a third of the women there around my age are single moms, and another half unmarried even if they're in longterm relationships.

(I've learned the hard way to never assume that anyone with kids is necessarily married, or ever married, which is a safe assumption to make in India)

That being said, I haven't noticed any obvious tension between the sexes. This is the new normal, even if it strikes me as dysfunctional. The women are generally not afraid of the men, and vice versa. I haven't really seen much of a dedicated incel community, presuming there's anywhere that actually exists. Most people seem content with things.

There isn't an 'incel' community anywhere, because that would entail the incels being a 'community', which they aren't.

Are online communities a thing? Are we a community?

For Russia, the traditional issue is low male quality. It's a vicious cycle of men doing "stupid men stuff" like drinking, fighting, committing crimes and working dangerous jobs, creating a scarcity of men that allows the survivors to get away with doing more stupid men stuff.

For decades, the solution to this problem was "women settling for less and/or looksmaxxing". You know, the "average Russian couple" meme with Shrek and a sex doll. These days women just don't settle down. They have as many kids as they can afford to raise alone since the divorce rate is too high (zero to one), so if they cannot afford children, they just don't marry anyone. They date around (earning the derogatory title of "plateress" from the men they eat out with), just in case there's someone worthy on the dating market, but no longer think they have to settle down by any due date.

This generally seems to be one case where the sex ratio is severely distorted in one direction or the other; women’s general willingness to marry is eroded as a consequence either way. One Manosphere blogger described it thus:

“Why should I think about marriage? All guys are available.”

“Why should I think about marriage? No guys are available.”

They're all psychological colonies of whatever the US PMC thinks. Fuck's sake, Finland holds BLM rallies. You're all living in America.

Just found this in an older discussion that was linked to in the current thread.

@JTarrou

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats