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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   1865 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for May 3, 2023

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

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I feel as if I am extremely unattractive due to autism and subpar physical appearance; while I have friends, dating has been almost impossible for me. While I have solid career prospects as a medical student, I believe that it is very unlikely that I will ever have an average partner. I do not think that any remotely "good" outcome is remotely realistic; at this point, it is about picking the least bad option, rather than a nonexistent and fundamentally unrealistic "good" option...at the end of the day, it has become abundantly clear to me that it is about deciding where I want the ambulances, or the lights and sirens: what institution will my partner be in and out of?

Given this: is there any set of skills that I might benefit from learning in order to be not only a good father and husband but nurse and caretaker for a partner? I know that my medical education will give me the technical skills to handle it, but medical school does not teach how to merge the roles of partner and caregiver. She might be 400 pounds and a sprained ankle away from immobility - and that is honestly one of the better things that could happen. It beats things like looking the other way at alcoholism or drug addiction. Yes, I am aware that there is "a hell of a lot of 'average' out there between prom queen and obese drug addict" but average is deeply unrealistic for me. That ain't happening any more than I'm going to discover some hidden, great athletic talent and start playing baseball for the Yankees, or compete in the Olympics.

How might I plan for things like 'my wife needs home health aides at age 45 because she can't take care of herself' or how to deal with my kids' (justifiable) disappointment at or anger at their mom because she literally ate up their college fund, or because there were a lot of experiences that they simply could not have because of their mother's size? It'd be the same way with anything else...if it was drug addiction, you've got the same problems plus or minus issues with law enforcement. If it was something like mental illness that manifested itself through terrible life choices and abuse, that'd be even worse.

In addition: how might I advertise that I am willing to go on this journey with someone: to sit by their side in the hospital because they've had a pulmonary embolism at 29. To look at wheelchairs and walkers with them in their thirties. To be their nurse and caretaker - or to work hard at medicine to earn enough to pay home health aides. How might I signal that I am not only able but willing to be that kind of caretaker?

is this a fetish you're acting out?

I’m in agreement with much of the thread below, with two things to add:

  1. Premature baldness is much less of an issue once you get out of the college environment. Shave your head if you don’t already.

  2. Your insecurities are not merited. If you can deal with patients/families thereof, you can surely learn to deal with the opposite sex. (Maybe disregard this if you’re set on becoming a pathologist.)

Damn, sounds like you want to court my wife.

Anyways, there's something wrong with you. Seriously. What the hell would you get out of a relationship with such a wreck?

Humility, strength, perhaps children. Why should I be celibate for life, if I can instead be in a relationship with someone that needs a nurse and caretaker - and gain whatever unique wisdom comes from sex and relationships from that experience?

I've known guys who've had it worse. Two Aspies I know had their girlfriends try to stab them. One succeeded and blocked the knife, the other very nearly died from blood loss but made a full recovery. They're in happy relationships with nice people now.

You want unique wisdom, then go and ask the people who had the experience. I mean, it seems you bought into the notion that you can generate personality traits or attractiveness or valuable experiences by going through with some zany scheme, and you also seem to be genuinely mentally ill to the point of holding ridiculous delusions as factual truths, but maybe you'll manage to consider the following: Other people have done what you consider your best path forward. Go and talk to them. Ask them about how great it is to be married to mental and biological failure. Ask them how much they get out of their lives when most of it is spent propping up that which fails to give reason to its existence beyond a hole between its legs. Maybe take a good look at them, figure out whether they're the kind that made their peace with fate and are waiting for death to release them from the shitshow they failed to extricate themselves from, or whether they're deluding themselves into thinking that what they're doing will ever get any better, or even that it's valuable. Also try to figure out how much of a burden their ward is on the people around them.

Your ideas are wrong, all wrong, and I am unreasonably angry about someone wanting to throw themselves and everyone around them into decades of misery. But it's none of my business. Go ahead, make the biggest mistake of your life. We all die eventually, and what does it matter whether you turned your life into an existential horror show. From what you wrote so far it seems your mind is beyond reason or repair, so all we can do is accept your planned self-destruction. Easy to do, since I don't know you.

Buddy, if you're a med student and on track to becoming a doctor, you really have to have fallen down the ugly tree, hit every branch and ended up with a pinecone in your ass for you to end up dating someone so decidedly below average.

Presumably you're a US med student, so you're on track to making around $250k a year unless the AIs take yer jerbs, at which point you can easily end up with hot women lining up to date you while employing herculean amounts of patience in the face of your autism.

In order of sense and sensibility:

  1. Workout. Can't cure ugly, but big muscles can distract from an unfortunate appearance.

  2. Look forward to a hot nurse or some other woman, who if not outright gold-digging, still has a vested interest in landing a decent guy, showing up in form-fitting scrubs to tease your decidedly non-autistic dick until you get the message.

  3. Visit Thailand. Fuck hot women. Adopt one and her water buffalo for the long haul.

  • I'm no slouch in the weight room: bench 225 squat 315 dead 345 weigh 160lb @ 5'6". I suppose I could try to look like a physique bodybuilder or something lol.

  • I am not sure that $250k is enough to get a Western woman to be with someone she finds disgusting on a visceral, biological level. I suppose that people vary in their disgust tolerance. Certainly my time as a medical student has really altered my feelings around disgust...I don't mind it as much, it doesn't matter as much. Some of my classmates feel differently, some feel the same way. I'd suspect that you need around a million a year to get someone to put up with that kind of disgust...I've heard that Silicon Valley was packed with fit multimillionaire virgins!

  • Sounds like that is asking to be divorced. Worse, if you are unlucky and she's quite disgusted by you. Not that there is anything at all wrong with that; I'd do the same in her shoes!

I am not sure that $250k is enough to get a Western woman to be with someone she finds disgusting on a visceral, biological level.

.. what makes you so ugly ? Being prematurely bald ?

Being too short ? Deformed, unusual face ?

Or is it all a mental problem, body dysmorphia ?

Premature baldness plus subpar facial appearance and 5’6” stature. Nothing that a medical professional would call a deformity, though I might benefit from jaw surgery.

Then you’ve got the autism to add to that. There have been studies that showed that neurotypicals (that’s normal people) judged autists as awkward based on two seconds of footage of them socially interacting, and even from snapshots of social interaction. That might not be a physical deformity, but it sure functions an awful lot like one, if people can be like “That guy’s awkward” after watching him talk to his friend across the room. For two seconds.

As such…I think a million a year sounds closer to what it would take to get someone who’s not morbidly obese, can work a full time job, not a danger to herself or others, and not addicted to hard drugs to endure that kind of disgust. I don’t blame people for that…I mean, it’d take a lot of convincing to get most people to be with someone they were viscerally disgusted by!

Have you considered importing a wife from Southeast Asia or South America etc? Honest question - you could easily marry very well that way.

Reasonably sure that she would be disgusted by me. I don't blame her for this; in her shoes I'd get as much cash out of the awkward doctor as I could, and then either divorce him (if I was being nice, or at least average) or take out a big life insurance policy on him and get rid of him permanently (if I was really grossed out by him, or felt I could get away with it...maybe due to something like organized-crime connections.) Why sleep with someone you find disgusting on a visceral, biological level any longer than you have to? Especially when there are better options out there.

I don’t think all women place as much emphasis on looks as you think, especially in other cultures. I’ve seen some baddies with disgusting men

Have you considered that physical appearance is one of the most malleable things about a person, particularly for a person with a high income? I have no specific knowledge of what about you is unattractive, but you have the following options open to you:

  1. plastic surgery if it's an unattractive face or jawline or your ears stick out or whatever

  2. weight loss drugs if you're overweight

  3. testosterone replacement therapy + personal training if you have a severe lack of muscle mass. (Girls mostly really like muscle mass.)

  4. that leg-lengthening procedure if your problem is height

  5. wigs or medical hair replacement (dunno the clinical term) if you are balding.

This is an entirely serious comment. Western society has a stigma against trying to change your appearance in these ways, but if your appearance is an impediment to you living your best life, you should change it if you have the money, which it sounds like you will.

Do these have side effects? Yeah, probably. Life is full of tradeoffs. Still, given current medical tech the OP reads a bit like a (more expensive) version of "i am worried that no woman will ever love me because all of my clothes are ugly. Should i resign myself to dying alone, or just really go hard on settling?" My dude! Just buy some new clothes!

Self-acceptance is bunk. Engineer that shit away.

  • plastic surgery if it's an unattractive face or jawline or your ears stick out or whatever

Will get this the minute I can afford it.

  • weight loss drugs if you're overweight

I'm 5'6 and 160.

  • testosterone replacement therapy + personal training if you have a severe lack of muscle mass. (Girls mostly really like muscle mass.)

Hmm. I'm no slouch in the weight room: bench 225, squat 315, deadlift 345.

  • that leg-lengthening procedure if your problem is height

Maybe when I'm an attending; the recovery period is long and you never fully recover your athletic potential.

  • wigs or medical hair replacement (dunno the clinical term) if you are balding.

As soon as I can afford it!

Hell yeah, dude. Remake yourself as someone hotter! Nobody can stop you! FUCK THE NATURAL ORDER.

I simply wish to say that I approve of your flair 👌

that leg-lengthening procedure if your problem is height

Isn't this an extremely invasive and painful surgery where you cannot function normally with your legs for 1-2 years while recovering? I would really suggest just dating short girls instead

wigs or medical hair replacement (dunno the clinical term) if you are balding.

OP, this is much recommended. Turkey has a large industry of medical tourism for plastic surgery but especially for hair treatments so I know lots of people who did this and it can really change a balding guy for much better.

Yeah, the legs thing is probably the most invasive of the items on the list, and the one i know least about.

You're a med student, so you'll eventually have some money. Spend it fixing your shit. Get a personal trainer, stylist, and a shrink. You'd be amazed how quickly you're qualified for a partner who's not terrible. Brilliant supermodel? Maybe not. Average weight, socially acceptable normie? Achievable. Your dating appeal will increase monotonically for the next ten plus years as long as you're not getting fatter, and even then. In the wise words of Peter Griffin, "Men aren't fat, only fat women are fat." https://youtube.com/watch?v=nulGvzYkDoQ

You seem extremely optimistic. I've seen short guys built like Greek gods that were with morbidly obese women. A Special Forces colonel with a wife that was an abusive shitbag. Like. I just want someone that's got an excellent chance of being able to wipe their own butt at 60 and live independently. That's it. Just...don't be abusive to me or any kids we have, and be able to live independently till 60.

Eh...I know eight short guys. Four have had partners that I know of; four have not.

  • Special Forces colonel. Wound up with a pretty wife that turned out to be an abusive sack of shit.

  • Two guys that were built like Greek gods. Think physique bodybuilding competitor. Morbidly obese partners; they were decent human beings as far as I know.

  • Future neurosurgeon. Charismatic enough for a career in politics. Has an average-looking fiancee with a decent career.

I know a few short medical students and residents that can't get dates. Family med doc with average charisma and 5'4" ain't enough to get a partner that isn't morbidly obese, unless you're like top 0.1 percent charisma...and if you are that charismatic, medicine's an interesting choice.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this; selecting some men by lot to be nurses and caretakers for women who need them - whether through bad choices or bad luck - doesn't seem like a terrible system to have going.

You are a med student so probably mid-20s at most? Just go to some cheap bars where people get drunk and/or take drugs; do some stuff you regret in the morning. You'll figure it out. You should do it now though, as people forgive young weirdos who do dumb stuff in bars, but as you get older it becomes more creepy/sad.

Yeah. I'm 28. I hope I can be with someone that can live independently and hold a job, any job, and isn't a danger to herself or others. And isn't addicted to hard drugs. Is that too high a standard? The only concern with the drug addicts is trouble from law enforcement.

I wouldn't worry about that -- anyways I wasn't suggesting that you marry a drug addict, just that people who party and/or use drugs sometimes are a lot more open than whatever crowd you're hanging out with seems to be.

Yeah, agreed.

Why do you assume that having low standards means ending up with someone with a self-destructive lifestyle or crippling health problems? You describe yourself as an ugly autistic man who is in good health and pretty much has his life together. Why don't you look for an ugly autistic woman who is in good health and pretty much has her life together?

Those are rare and usually end up with guys a hell of a lot more attractive than me. I don't blame them. It's what I'd do in their shoes. My only real choice is where I want the ambulances. How do I make that happen?

You are unreasonably certain of that being your "only choice".

Stop being such a baby for one.

What: accept that I will be a nurse and caretaker and start working to build a good social network to help me with that?

@Ioper put it a bit more harshly than I would have but he's correct. Even if you are such a bad catch that you have to settle for a below average woman (which probably isn't true), there's a huge expanse between "average" and "so fat she can't even hope to wipe her ass any more, either that or a meth addict". This idea that you have to consign yourself to a life of misery (either being alone or being some broken woman's caretaker) is pure bullshit.

Your biggest problem isn't being autistic or whatever, it's your mindset. Women are going to see that from a fucking mile away, my dude. Nothing chases them off faster than some guy wallowing in self pity. Stop doing this weird coping mechanism of "I'm going to be miserable no matter what, best get used to it" and start trying to be more positive. Get therapy if you have to. But whatever you do, take steps to work on ditching this toxic mindset you are in right now.

And FFS stop arguing with people trying to give you good advice in this thread. The people giving you sympathy and saying "yeah I know what you mean, it's going to be bad for people like us"? They are the ones you need to push back on and not listen to. Listening to them is just going to keep you where you are. It feels good but it's like eating junk food - it's just making you unhealthy. You are utterly wrong about what the world and your prospects are like, and if you want to be in a better place you need to stop listening to the people you're inclined to agree with and start listening to the people you've been arguing against.

there's a huge expanse between "average" and "so fat she can't even hope to wipe her ass any more, either that or a meth addict".

I think that it is unrealistic for me to be with someone that met the standards I once had:

  • Not morbidly obese

  • Not a danger to herself or others

  • Not addicted to hard drugs or alcohol

  • Able to work a full-time job, any job

  • Able to live independently and manage her own affairs.

I am working on being positive. I've realized a couple of weeks ago that these were basically my options and that it was good to be satisfied and happy with them: if my "niche" is nurse and caretaker, I need to figure out how to fill that niche rather than choosing to be celibate for life. There's plenty of guys that are happy with partners that are a lot worse than "is 500 pounds and needs a nurse and caretaker"; I've seen children that have been raised in those environments and have turned out OK...although that is a bridge that I'll cross if I ever reach it.

Why does caretaking have to be miserable? Pick the least-bad option and be happy with it, is my plan.

Quit the charade of "hard realism", you're just manufacturing reasons to wallow in unproductive self-pity.

Your doomerism is an escapist fantasy, steering you away from confronting what's genuinely achievable and taking actions in that direction. It's as delusional as thinking you'll get a hot girlfriend by simply getting a bunch of money, and even less productive.

Hmm. I mean...I am willing to work on building a social network. I've accepted that I am unlikely to ever be averagely attractive, to be honest. A good social network will help me whether I'm alone, with a partner that needs a nurse and caretaker, or with one that doesn't.

Also: gold diggers exist. I suppose that if you have a large enough pile of cash, someone's willing to hold her nose and accept prostitution on a long term contract. The problem is that most doctors do not amass sufficiently large piles of cash. I'd think around fifty million at least is necessary...

One more thing: I believe that war is one of the best ways to become more attractive, as a man. Provided that you survive in one piece, more or less. Not happier, and every veteran I know paid a very heavy price. That being said: I do intend to have myself dumped into the Alaskan wilderness in late winter, next year, with survival gear. If I survive and walk out, I suppose it might be like war minus the moral injury and risk of being maimed...although maybe the moral injury is an essential part of things.

The first half of the first paragraph is good but then you're straight back to escapism.

If a one paragraph goal is what you can muster then focus on that. Don't engage with the doomerist escapism. Take a step back and look at your behaviour here, you're having a crisis and that is fine, but this kind of thinking is neither realistic nor productive.

Don't focus on the goal if you can't imagine it, focus on the small steps that will take you in the right direction.

50 million? War to make you attractive to women?

Man, you make some wild assumptions.

  1. I suggest you come back to this after 1 year of making that sweet American medical cartel salary. That should help a bit with women not infinitely, perhaps even not much but probably more than now.

  2. From a psychological standpoint, you can just.. give up. This is the path Ive chosen. Ive not given up permanently but temporarily. Im probably of average looks but am deeply austistic in a way where I get along great with guys and terribly with girls. It feels like talking to a wall sometimes. Im making sweet bag as of late so Im hoping in the near future my bankaccount should have a strong enough gravitational field to do the job for me.

Right. That's going to get me a gold digger who's disgusted by me and only in it for the money.

Thats just being a human male my guy. You're not the only one with that fate.

You sound like you have severe self-esteem issues and maybe mild anxiety. Not as a clinical diagnoses, but as character traits that hinder you in fulfilling your social potential.

Living on the spectrum comes with its share of frustrations because you will be routinely misunderstood. It seems you have at least in part overcome that, as a medical student, which is on the path to a high status/well respected job anywhere in the world. In countries with arranged marriages, you likely would have no problem at all finding a partner.

My suggestion to you would be to find some activities, true to your identity and interests, which would help you enlarge your social circle. It could be volunteering (natural since you're a medical stundent), exercise/sport related such as yoga, spiritual such as temple or church. Don't worry about finding a partner, focus just on finding people who appreciate you for who you are. Don't be creepy, but don't let fear of being perceived as a creep prevent you from talking to and meeting people.

You managed to overcome the limitations of autism for your professional life, you can do so (with work and practice) for your social life as well. You may think differently from people but that doesn't mean you cannot learn to understand them.

I am a Westerner. I don't think that it is a great idea for a woman to be with me (or anyone) simply because of a crap-ton of societal pressure - or worse, actual physical coercion. Thanks for the hope - but only morbidly obese women have been interested in me. That, and once someone that later wound up in a psych ward over threats of suicide/homicide during a drunken argument. It was, from what I heard, rather ugly; knives were waved around and cops called.

Interesting that you argue that it's about self-esteem, rather than my autism and subpar physical appearance - I'm a short, bald guy with a puny jaw. Sure. I'm no slouch in the gym and weight room, but even looking like a Greek god only goes so far. I've seen said Greek God(lets).

When you say short and buff, what exactly do you mean? Because I know short guys (about 165cm) that get laid and form relationships, and they don't look like Jeff Nippard, nor do their wives or girlfriends look like Jabba the Hutt. Nor are some of them particularly rich or successful.

Thanks for the hope - but only morbidly obese women have been interested in me.

It could be that only morbidly obese women have signalled interest in you - since you claim to have autism, it could be that you're not picking up on signals from normal women, or that you're failing to signal your own interest, which is something you have to do with women.

When you say short and buff, what exactly do you mean? Because I know short guys (about 165cm) that get laid and form relationships, and they don't look like Jeff Nippard, nor do their wives or girlfriends look like Jabba the Hutt. Nor are some of them particularly rich or successful.

I mean 5'4" guys that look like (and in one case, actually were) amateur physique bodybuilding competitors. Not quite Jeff Nippard tier though. They're not with women that need to use mobility scooters on a regular basis, but they're definitely with morbidly obese women.

The short guys in my medical school class are all focused on their careers; I never saw them with girlfriends. For some reason, the average-height and tall guys seem to date...

This additional information really confirms my initial impression. Very few men, even model level attractive, will have attractive women just fall in their lap and do all the heavy lifting. You're clearly not that attractive. But your description doesn't sound hopeless, you appear fit, no deformities/scarring that evoke an immediate reaction of pity/disgust. Women can be attracted to other things than just physical hotness: kindness, humor, cleverness, wealth, success, prestige.

Indeed, no woman will ever want you for just your physique, but does that matter? Do you want women for only their physique?

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