Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What are some great first date ideas? What worked for you guys? Previously I've taken girls to the museum and I think that's fine -- you can always talk about the art if conversation stalls, and it segues very well into getting coffee or iced-cream afterward. Part of me is worried that it's too boring or conventional though -- maybe something with some light activity involved?
On that note, I've recently moved to the UK so punting doesn't seem like such a bad idea for a date -- Lord knows I've seen plenty of couples doing it near my neck of the woods.
The first couple dates are about proving to her that you aren't a fucking phsyco that's going to cook and eat her toes; so something very in public but not involved with the public. A place where you can be seen by other people but don't have to interact with them. Museums are good, going to markets or art shows, the Zoo, the Beach, the Park, etc.
I've blown it before by trying out my favorite thing, which is going on a mountain walk with my dog. Everybody likes dogs and mountains and walks; or at least everyone I'm willing to try tolerating. What's no to like?
The fact that she doesn't know me and I invited her into the murder zone; to a really good place to star in a true crime drama where they find her earrings in a pile of coyote scat. You gotta save that second location shit for the fourth date at least!
More options
Context Copy link
Where are you meeting these women? I am quite bad at picking up women through my mostly STEMbrained male social circle and have only cold-approached a few times but I have been on several online dates. Best strategy I've found is first a bigger bar somewhere in the city (sit at the bar) and then a more intimate one closer to your place (where you sit in a booth and can hold her hand/kiss her), both on the first date. Alcohol is a social lubricant and gives her another reason to rationalize sleeping with you quickly. And yes, that is important in online dating because you'll have lots of competition who won't be afraid to move fast. I think the whole idea that it's better to take time and build up to making her feel butterflies in her stomach only applies to someone you met more organically. In the online dating world, strike while the iron is hot or the whole situation will lose momentum.
Edit: mandatory disclaimer that these dates were all in big American cities and dating culture might be different in Britain
Church.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I assume you're in Cambridge or Oxford (does anywhere else do punting?). But yes, it's a great date idea. Followed by drinks.
My general advice would be to take her to more than one location. That makes it feel like more than one date and so makes it seem like the relationship has progressed further in the same amount of time. Plus, changing locations makes the experience more novel and allows you to show that you can make decisions. Your best bet is to have a few options lined up and then 'spontaneously' pick one at the time.
I'm near Cambridge. When I first saw it I knew it was a good date idea. Of course, coffee or ice-cream or lunch are easy to tack on afterward, especially if the day is hot and we want a break from the weather. So changing venues shouldn't be an issue.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
(Some of the other comments in this thread are straight wild. I can't tell if they're LARPing, triple-nested irony or finewine shitposting, or just ChatGPT hallucinations.)
TLDR on how heterosexual women choose mates can be reduced to "social proof." This isn't all encompassing, but it's the single most important factor. The more you can put yourself in an environment with demonstrable social proof the better. I've written about this before, sorry for the self-link.
I think a lot of guys screw up the first date by making it far too 1-on-1 and not somehow building in that social proof. In my experience, there is a very simple way to get reliable massive social proof without having to stress on logistics or complex arrangements:
Become a regular at a bar.
A couple ground rules. 1. The bar has to be a pretty fancy cocktail bar or hipster style joint. Think rough wood paneling, low lighting, and a bearded gent who knows too much about agave plants behind the bar. 2. You don't become a regular by showing up a few times on your own and getting hammered and tipping heavy.
Here's how you become a regular:
You have to spend time (and money) going in on off hours and figuring out which bartender works on core date nights (Thur, Fri, Sat). The economics of bars being what they are, it's pretty rare for even the "Prime Time" bartenders to not work at least one afternoon shift. I find luck on Sundays and Tuesdays the most. You go in right after work (or as early as about 4pm if you can work remote or have the flexibility). Sit at the bar, get the menu etc. etc.
Have a personality and interesting things to talk about. I know this can be very difficult. Here are some tips - start out by asking their recommendation for a drink / cocktail. They're going to recommend something that's pretty inoffensive (usually a slight modification to a basic manhattan, martini, or old fashioned and their various tequila cousins). If they ask what you like, have an answer ready. When they make it, compliment it and find a road to go down. What does that mean? Don't say "oh, it's fruity!" or "oh, yeah, I like that!" Those are dead ends. Make an observation, and then make an extending comment on that observation; "There's some smokiness in there ... what's another drink where there's more of that (or) what can complement smokiness (or) do people like that smokiness." Oh, goodness, you've just started a conversation. Remember when I said that you should look for a fancy spot where the guy behind the bar knows a lot about agave / bourbon or whatever? This is because if you can differentiate your comment on the drink enough, you can get that guy to shoulder the conversation for the next 30 minutes by letting him go on and on about .... whatever. Listen, ask leading questions, offer light opinions ("I never really liked whiskey because I think it has a bad aftertaste" is fine "GIN IS FOR PUSSIES" is not). Just ... talk.
Ask the guy when he's on again (meaning, when he's working again). Show back up, do the same thing. You'll know you've made a (good) impression if they start saying "What's up, dude?" after you've walked in but before you've sat down. You'll know you're really in if they start to make you custom drinks without prompting to see what your reaction is.
3a. I wouldn't recommend this step if you haven't done this kind of thing before, but I just recently did it at a new bar I've been checking out and it was a lot of fun. If the bartender works an off evening (Tuesday/Wednesday night for instance) and you can afford the day off / hangover the next day - go in and just get hammered. Because it's an off night, it should be slow and they're likely to drink a little bit with you, comp a couple rounds, and open up the conversation topics a little more. This is kind of a "stars have to align" move, but, if you can pull it off, it's awesome.
After regularly (you know, like a regular) showing up to this bartenders shifts for three - four weeks, AND maintaining a good rolling conversation, you're set. Now back to dates and where the fun comes in.
You setup the date to meet at the bar for casual drinks. That's not hard and it's seems a little basic however She'll do the research on the bar and find out that, at the least, it's a trendy cocktail bar and she's not going to some horrible sports / dive bar with awful bathrooms and warm beer. But the magic happens when the two of you walk in and your partner in crime, the bartender, says, "What's up, TollBooth?!" and means it. You'll probably get a better seat at the bar than what the host/hostess would default to. Bartenders interact with and watch people for a living so he'll understand it's a date right off the bat. You're golden. From here, just have a normal conversation with your date and enjoy things like the following, ranked in order of most to least likely:
You have to remember that at these craft cocktail places, the over-knowledgeable bartender is running the show in the eyes of the patrons (it's actually still probably either the head chef or just the GM who's really doing it, but, whatever). So, in the eyes of your date, the most "important dude" in the building is now pumping you up like a hype man. Your date will feel like she's in the center of the attention of the place without feeling like there's a spotlight on her. She gets to feel self-satisfied that she's snagged the most popular dude. What's more, because the bartender is going to make sure service is snappy, it can even come across like you've got some sort of special pull and the dinner is somehow just better than it could be anywhere else. She'll be telling her friends about it and just drink in their envy. Your friendly bartender will also act as a constant refrain point for the conversation if you hit a weird silent phase and run out of things to say. "Rodrigo is such a cool dude," can be said again and again to restart the conversation, and it's also a subtle cue of "remember my social proof."
After the date, you do what you want. After many years of operating out of the cut-and-dry bachelor dating playbook, I don't try to move towards sex. I don't care. I want to see if I've actually captured durable attention (which is the most fought over commodity nowadays, right?) and, more importantly, if I enjoyed the conversation, feel some chemistry and compatibility, and genuinely want to see her again. Maybe a quick kiss or something and then it's part ways / separate Ubers.
Even more than dates, this works well for (casual) work dinners or happy hours. Although I'm a little hesitant to recommend it for client / sales meetings because some people get the wrong idea and think you're an alcoholic who shows up there everyday.
Some closing thoughts:
Why is the bartender actually doing this for you? One, by showing up regularly for a few weeks and many shifts before the date, you are spending some money and signalling you'll probably keep doing it. This is a transaction to an extent. The larger point, however, is that you made good conversation. 80% of bartender conversation is them listening to people talk about themselves and their own lives, or having to navigate petty small talk on sports, politics, and pop culture. And they're on their feet for 8 - 10 (or more hours). If you can break that monotony, they're going to love you.
Tip heavy always. This is a business.
Throughout this write-up, I've used "he" as the pronoun for the bartender and obviously assumed the bartender is male. That's the harder scenario.
You can do all of this with a female bartender too and, if you do, your date is guaranteed to end in fireworks.
I'm sure that works as you describe - cultivating a reputation, social proof, all of it, but doesn't it feel dishonest to its core? Like, the whole edifice is built on wanting to be seen as the kind of person who is a sociable regular at a fancy cocktail bar and not actually being that person. If you were that person, you'd already have such a place in your back pocket.
What is dishonest about it? Are you someone who hates cocktails and bars? Probably not. Don't veto something until you actually know if you'd be disgenuine about it.
I find this to be a bizarre assumption. Plenty of people hate cocktails and bars. I’m not someone who hates alcohol on principle, but the few times I have partaken in social drinking, I ended up making a fool of myself.
The idea that one should add alcohol to delicate high-stakes social situations strikes me as nothing less than pants-on-head retarded. How could that possibly end up going well?
I think the recommendation is to drink enough to loosen your inhibitions. Not enough to get drunk.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
However, people obviously do not become authentic bar regulars instantly upon hitting drinking age. So when do you start?
Whenever you find a bar/bartender you like enough on their own merits to keep returning, I guess. More genuine, less transactional. Befriend the bartender because you enjoy their company, not because you need to acquire a bartender wingman.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I found just going on a walk somewhere was good. It allows for conversation and less awkward moments of silence. Also what is being observed on the walk can be a point of connection.
More options
Context Copy link
It depends on what you mean by "what worked"... If you mean quickly getting access into her pants and the next day very possibly being ghosted, or losing interest yourself, @Sloot seems to be on the right track, or at least of the same mind. Get her in a bikini and go to town, or whatever. If you are looking for something that might build some kind of relationship that lasts a relatively fun period of time and leaves you both feeling like you've contributed in some way to the net authenticity, and, even, romance of male/female interaction, I would rethink.
Alcohol is always an ice breaker, but can lead relatively quickly to undesirable outcomes. I once took a shockingly hot ballerina (mentioned only because I have a thing for ballerinas..I mean a ballerina!) out for dinner at what I thought would be a great restaurant that I had already decided was of good ambience. She said she wanted to eat meat (she was Japanese, this wouldn't have been an unusual thing to say). Only after arriving did I realize the Middle Eastern place I had chosen was largely devoid of any meat dishes. This was bad enough, but after my third glass of delicious red, I was in such an expansive frame of mind that I knocked the table with my knee and spilled wine all over both my side of the table and my left thigh. It's hard to charm one's way out of this kind of situation. It's like coming back from the bathroom wearing a jester cap and gamboling back tableside, then trying to take the cap off and act as if nothing were at all amiss.
Do you cook? If so, decide a menu. Pick her up and take her grocery shopping. Buy wine if you must. The more stops on the way the better, up until your butter begins melting of course. If you can shop and get home before anything has begun to spoil, you're fine. Now go back home (with her, to your own home. WHICH IS CLEAN.) Turn on some sort of music. She can choose, if you have some Spotify thing (when I was in my heyday in these matters I had CDs). Make the dinner together. Eat it. You may or may not successfully "bang her" but you'll get a sense of how well you get along.
NB: If you can't cook, do not do any of this. Also if you know absolutely nothing about this girl and have any expectation that you will not hit it off, you might go the coffee and Ferris Wheel or whatever route, just to guarantee an end point where both parties can gracefully escape.
Whatever you end up doing, and this is me saying too much and probably being presumptuous: Be into it. Feel good about it. Show a little excitement, or at least confidence (thus the caveat about cooking skill. If you are pretty sure you can't, don't.) Also I once had a girl stare at me as I was cutting broccoli and tell me I was doing it wrong. First date. I was in fact doing it wrong but not for my purposes at the time, which were to put it into a soup, but I didn't feel like explaining myself and anyway this was like a window into a future of misery. We had no second date and we did not "bang," though I remember being in a bed with her for some reason. Also the house or apartment being clean bit is essential. Especially the bathroom. Her apartment may be a pig sty and probably is, but do you care? No, you don't. She will, about yours. Fools will say just be yourself, dust bunnies behind the toilet and all. I say rise above.
Completely disagree, will just copy+paste from my other comment:
There's really nothing about first date sex that would preclude a more meaningful relationship later on in my experience and those of my friends.
Suggesting cooking dinner on a first date seems more like you're trying to sleep with her. I've done this on a 2nd date and did sleep with her and she was fully expecting that from the moment I suggested it. In fact I find it odd you didn't manage to (unless you were actively avoiding it).
Are we discussing online dating? That's a field I'm not at all familiar with, so I defer to those with experience.
You are probably right that a woman willfully crossing your threshold (I mean literally passing beneath the lintel of your doorway) is an indicator, though I would suggest it's an indicator less of "I am willing to have sex with you" as much as it is an indicator of trust in your behavior. And anyone met online might very reasonably lack such trust.
It may also, of, course, mean she is open to physical intimacy (including sex) but to just assume so strikes me as more PUA/Redpill dogma than anything resembling reality.
Mind you, I am not suggesting that you were wrong in your own assumptions regarding the 2nd date you mention; I'm sure you read all sorts of other signals and followed them to their conclusion.
I would also insert that I am probably adhering to more traditional norms and have assumptions and experiences based on the generation of women I came up with. I am not completely unfamiliar with one-night stands (again, always negotiated in my case via face-to-face meeting, not arranged via dating app or whatever) but I am also familiar with the very quick dissipation of passion that follows, especially if these assignations were fueled (or lubricated, to use your term) by alcohol.
That alcohol suppresses inhibition is of course news to no one. If you just want to get laid, sure, enjoy a few martinis together. You indicate surprise that I would make dinner for a woman and not then screw her, as if that were her tab for the meal. As a man, I don't think I can necessarily say with full confidence that I definitely would have had sex with any number of women (including broccoli girl) had I but reached out my hands to take, because who the hell knows what's in the heart of a woman? And I can count the times I myself have been propositioned on a few fingers, fewer still the times I have said no (though I have, and I don't think this should be surprising.) I say this only in response to your remark that you found it odd or surprising that I did not follow through with broccoli girl. She had annoyed me, and with more than just her vegetable prep tips. As for the bed memory, I recall the circumstances now and they're boring and have very little to do with sexy good times.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Breakfast out, the benefits of a meal but with the expectation you go separate ways for your day.
More options
Context Copy link
Instruction unclear; my date got tired and whiny after a few minutes of retrieving the footballs I kicked.
My go-to date is drinks at my place; no need to introduce unnecessary extra steps. Drinks at the pool of my building is always a great option too, location/season/time-of-day permitting. Pool dates are like catnip for chicks, as they are always eager to get photos of themselves in bikinis for social media. “If it involves a bikini, the answer is yes” reads many a girl’s online dating profile.
Plus, them having less clothing on means a smoother experience getting her naked once you’re back in the apartment/hotel room, and thus it leaves less time for her to think and it increases the general feeling of “omg like one thing just led to another and it just like happened!” for her.
One could also smoothly invite yourself over to her place and hope for visitor’s field advantage, if you deem your place insufficiently cool or there are any other obstacles. Their defenses are typically lower when presented with this idea relative to inviting her over to your place. On the other hand, this option might not be practical if she still lives with family. You also might not know if she lives with roommates and to what extent they might cock-block, inadvertently or not, or otherwise ruin the vibe.
Sometimes roommates can be worse cockblocks than parents. Mothers will often be pleasant, offer a quick chat, and then make herself scarce. Fathers will often just retreat back to their man-cave and seethe in solitude. Roommates, however, might just be sufficiently nosy and busybodied to constantly poke and mosey around. Some might try to involve themselves into the date, to add another person or persons for which you have to court-jester and monkey-dance.
If a girl’s otherwise being difficult, another option is to agree to a date at a bar/lounge near your place, but tell her you’ll meet her downstairs/outside/in the lobby of your building or whatever. You can facilitate this by sending her an Uber/Lyft/taxi/etc. When she arrives, just start talking and walking back to your place like you’re giving a guided tour. Almost always they’ll naturally follow without objection, and you can just proceed like the planned date was drinks at your place all along. Even if you don’t bang her then and there and you do have to take her to a bar/lounge, her having already been in your place means she’ll be more likely to return afterward for the finish.
I can't fathom having sex with a woman who lives with her parents, is this a European thing? In America I think it's your place or bust. Maybe exceptions might be made for Chad.
Not even 100% European, Scandis and similar cultures love to gently, but insistently shove their kids out when they turn 18.
But since college towns aren't really a common thing in Europe, if you're a college student dating a college student, it's quite likely that you're both from the same town the university is in and thus live with your parents.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Is this a joke? I’ve never heard of Pool dates and I probably lived in the building with the best pool scene for a residence in North America (a lus high end hotel). Seems way too aggressive especially since most chicks would seem to think it’s putting them too much on the spot to be in a swimsuit for a date. It does work after you know each other.
The back to place for drinks seems a bit weird to unless it’s a group thing. Boys coming over for drinks before doing something.
Honestly for one on one a decent happy hour seems the easiest.
The first sentence was a joke, clearly. I did not, in fact, take a girl out to a field and make her chase down footballs that I kicked, whether it be the handegg or divegrass kind. However, come to think of it, I do hope to attain such a level of Chaddery some day.
The rest of it is—for better or worse—not a joke; in some ways I wish we lived in a timeline in which it were. The above has been my strategy for several years now spanning across different cities and countries, both when I’ve been traveling and when I’m just otherwise chilling at my home city at the time.
Chicks will happily throw on bikinis to eat hot chip and lie around the pool and the beach, thot around at random pool and yacht parties, music festivals, sports bra and spandex shorts to go to the gym. They actively seek out activities where they have plausible deniability to wear skimpy outfits. It’s hardly putting them on the spot or asking for much to get them into a bikini for a first date. Chicks rather enjoy being sex objects, might as well play it to your benefit.
I think so, too. I think women often want excuses to show off their clothes or bodies. They're very coy about admitting these things even though it's obvious to all.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Where do you live in the UK that you have a nice pool in your building? Some luxury apartment buildings here do have indoor pools, although they tend to be of the ‘basement gym’ variety (ie Not season/weather dependent), not the panoramic or rooftop variety. I guess there’s that one place next to the US embassy in Vauxhall, but that’s the only one I can think of.
I think the point is he does not live in the UK, thus the term "punting" has a different meaning for him. I could be misreading.
I thought he does, might be misremembering it though.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I always found it weird to do too much for a first date. The point is the conversation right? But then I have never really been into serial dating either so maybe if your target demographic is people who go to multiple dates per week then standing out and being memorable is more important
More options
Context Copy link
Museum is good. Flower gardens are nice. Coffee and a walk is a classic.
Can do something like frisbee golf, or putt putt if she’s more into activities.
Putt putt is classic, if a little cheesy. But I think that can be worked to your advantage.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link