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This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
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This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
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This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
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Shaming.
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Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
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Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
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Recruiting for a cause.
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Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
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Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
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Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
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This is the Quality Contributions Roundup. It showcases interesting and well-written comments and posts from the period covered. If you want to get an idea of what this community is about or how we want you to participate, look no further (except the rules maybe--those might be important too).
As a reminder, you can nominate Quality Contributions by hitting the report button and selecting the "Actually A Quality Contribution!" option. Additionally, links to all of the roundups can be found in the wiki of /r/theThread which can be found here. For a list of other great community content, see here.
These are mostly chronologically ordered, but I have in some cases tried to cluster comments by topic so if there is something you are looking for (or trying to avoid), this might be helpful.
Quality Contributions to the Main Motte
- "Republicans/Conservatives have been hamstrung for decades by the dynamics of government work."
- "Which is the final contradiction: talking constantly about Master Morality is often a form of Slave Morality."
Contributions for the week of June 24, 2024
Contributions for the week of July 1, 2024
Contributions for the week of July 8, 2024
Contributions for the week of July 15, 2024
- "A Trip to the Mall and our Society-Wide Experiment in Extreme Trust"
- "I came away from this saying, the Cybertruck really is as fast or faster than a 911, even with a lot of cargo."
Contributions for the week of July 22, 2024
Contributions for the week of July 29, 2024
This is an overview of my struggles with chronic pain. It's a bit of a personal post, but also in the end dips slightly into how I overcame my issues via coming back to Christ. I hope it's useful/interesting for folks.
Pasting the whole thing below here, although there are images in the Substack that I reference so I recommend checking it out if you're curious:
You’ve probably seen it before. Your friend is a broken wreck, they can’t work, their life is steadily plummeting towards the abyss. They get diagnosed with fibromyalgia, CPTSD, hypermobility/EDS, or early onset arthritis. You give up hope they’ll ever be normal.
Then all of the sudden, out of seemingly nowhere, they start drinking celery juice every day and all their problems disappear! (This one actually happened to my mom, bless her heart.)
Or they go gluten-free. Or find Jesus. Or see a $500/hr chiropractor who’s written a book about ghosts. Whatever it is, it "fixes" them.
You roll your eyes. But also… you kind of want it to be true. Because maybe you’ll finally get to stop listening to them complain. Maybe, just maybe, the cloud of misery around them that has slowly pushed away you and everyone else in their life is finally parting, and you’ll get to see them be happy for the first time in years.
Modern chronic pain causes an incredible amount of misery. The typical cited prevalence of chronic pain is somewhere around 50 million people in the U.S. daily experiencing at least some pain.
Now when you think of someone with chronic pain, you probably picture an old mill worker with a bad back, or hips, or knees. Perhaps all three.
But chronic pain doesn’t just hit the old, the worn down, the obviously crippled. There are also people like me, not so long ago. A 23-year-old man sobbing silently as his tongue goes numb, his jaw locks, and he tries to decide whether or not to call 911 for the third time that month.
That kind of moment where you stare death in the face is characteristic of what the medical field calls “high-impact” chronic pain. The dry description of “daily activities are significantly limited” doesn’t quite capture how it feels from the inside.
When you look at these stats and medical phrases, it’s easy to distance yourself emotionally. But if you’ll allow me, dear reader, I want to give you a bit of an inside look into what it’s like to go through crushing, daily, seemingly inescapable pain.
How all of your worst fears seemingly become realized.
You stare down decades of living as a cripple.
When your own body betrays you constantly, forcing you to go from a bright energetic youth to a shuffling old man over the course of a couple of years.
How you think you’ve finally found a cure, only to have the hope cruelly ripped out of your weak grasp over, and over. And over.
Hopefully, this inside look can help you understand and sympathize with those unfortunates who, like me, have dealt with the hell we so clinically call “chronic pain.”
23 Years Young, Staring Death in the Face
Sitting on the bed at my mom’s house, at 3 o’clock in the afternoon, the soft afternoon sunlight streamed through the window. At the age of 23, I thought I was about to die.
My tongue burned all down the left side, then promptly went numb. It felt like a snake had lodged itself in my throat all of the sudden, and started to swell. The muscles along my jaw bunched, locked and then started to spasm. I fought for breath.
Rushing in after hearing some of the noises I was making, my mother panicked and asked if we needed to go to the E.R. I told her no, by shaking my head of course. I wasn’t capable of speech at this point.
You see, I had already been to the E.R. once for something similar, just a few months ago. They made me wait for hours, spent five minutes looking at me, told me I was ‘normal’ and then pushed me out, charging me close to $1,000 for the pleasure. Would’ve been five times more if I had called an ambulance. It was not covered by my insurance via work at the time, of course.
Then I had gone to urgent care a few times. Similar story. At least those docs gave me some drugs, to try and make me feel better.
So I told my mom no, and got up and decided to walk with her. In my head, though I was convinced that the reaper stalked behind me, about to pounce, I wanted to see the sunlight one last time. We opened the door and strolled through the afternoon sunshine. Oh, the light was so beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. At the time I still subscribed to a sort of half-hearted atheism, but if I had believed in God I likely would’ve dropped to my knees and sung out His praise.
I’ve done that a few times between then and now.
Talking shit till I get lockjaw
A$AP Rocky has some good lyrics, okay?
Rewinding a bit, my official diagnosis for the numb tongue and the locking jaw was TMJ, or temporomandibular joint dysfunction. It began a few months after my first job out of college, a stressful, boiler-room-esque sales job where we were expected to make close to 100 ‘touches’ (calls/emails) a day to potential customers. Not horrible, as far as volume of entry level sales goes, but horrible enough to break me.
The first time I felt any issue, I thought someone had hit me in the head, or something. A lightning bolt of pain shot across my face, and a good proportion of the muscles from the side of my lip up to my right eye went numb. I was on a sales call at the time! To my credit (perhaps) I finished the call, though slurring a bit, called my manager, and told him I was taking the rest of the day off.
I had dealt with some chronic pain previously, mainly in my sciatica nerve down the side of my leg. That one, I thought, was easier to explain though. I had been doing hardcore ballroom dance competitions, it came on over a period of time, and I must have overstressed the leg. This time was different - a bolt out of the blue in a completely near area of my body, that had never felt any pain like this before.
That episode started the first of my four FMLA leave periods from sales jobs, in a five year span. While I do complain about the Western medical system, I have to admit the Family Medical Leave Act is pretty amazing. It gave me a lot of flexibility when I needed it most.
So, what do you do when a random, major illness strikes you out of nowhere? Call the doctor, of course! So I did. I went to my primary care doctor. They referred me to a TMJ specialist at a big, national name hospital nearby. Of course, all of this took over a month, since every new specialist takes between 2 and 6 weeks to even get the first appointment with.
It was during this waiting period that the drama above unfolded.
Anyway, this doctor saw me a couple of times, warned that I may need surgery and may never heal, and sent me off to a dentist who specialized in TMJ. One of the handful in the country, who happened to be in this medical system that my insurance actually did cover.
Side note: It’s completely insane how many doctors will just off-handedly tell you that you may need surgery, and/or that you’ll have to live with something forever. I would be told that at least a dozen times throughout my medical journey.
I was one of the lucky ones, despite the difficulty. So far I was in only a few hundred bucks, chump change.
So I saw this dentist who specialized in TMJ. He calmed me down, told me that things would be ok. That he had dealt with cases as severe as mine plenty of times, and no I wouldn’t need surgery. He molded a night guard for me to sleep with to stop me clenching my jaw all night, sent me to a specialized TMJ physical therapist (who cost $150 per session, uncovered by insurance) and prescribed me a benzodiazepam. Klonopin, to be specific.
Now, all of these treatments together actually worked quite well! I wasn’t back to 100%, but I was able to go back to work in a few weeks, and get rid of the impending sense of doom that whispered that I was going to die, or never be able to talk or eat again. The Klonipin caused me some… other problems, but that’s a story for another post.
Sadly, the TMJ was only the beginning of my story with chronic pain.
The Carpal Tunnel of Love
Great song, by the way. Some of Fall Out Boy’s best.
After my first successful foray into getting medical treatment for my issues, I returned to work somewhat hesitantly, but things seemingly turned around for me. My focus and drive returned, even leading to me getting promoted after another few months in the job.
However, about a year after having to take leave for TMJ, I found myself forced to quit the working world once again.
The next problematic area was my hands and wrists. When I say problematic, I don’t mean the next painful area. At this point I had already started to develop tons of pain in my low back, hips, and legs as well; despite all the physical therapy, working out, and yoga I was doing. It got to the point where they started calling me the “old man” around my office, despite the fact that I was in my early 20s.
Either way, the combined stress of a high-pressure laptop job and me gaming a ton, led to my wrists basically completely blowing out next. I pushed through the pain for a while, but ultimately had to call it. Another dramatic discussion with my bosses about taking leave, this one FAR less friendly. Luckily however, they were legally obliged to let me take more FMLA, as a year had passed since my last medical leave.
So off I went, back to stay at home for a month, stress about doctor’s appointments, and generally just convalesce. I didn’t handle this period of time off work as well as the last. My strategy to cope with the pain had increasingly become mixing my anti anxieties with alcohol and cannabis in order to basically numb myself out of whatever I was feeling at any given moment. As the reader likely knows, that strategy doesn’t pan out well in the long run.
Anyway, I had continued working with my physical therapist this entire time, despite racking up a bill of thousands of dollars with him in over a year of weekly treatments, so I got him to give me some referrals to carpal tunnel docs.
Same old shtick. Took forever to get an appointment. When I did, they told me I would likely need surgery, and sent me off to another specialist. One of them spent months trying to prescribe me mild muscle relaxant type drugs like cyclobenzaprine, gabapentin, or flexeril, which are weak beer when you’re in so much pain you can barely lift a glass of water to your mouth with both hands.
I started to get all sorts of fancy diagnoses at this point. Early onset arthritis. Fibromyalgia. Hypermobility (EDS). CPTSD. Et cetera.
My FMLA leave quickly got eaten up, so I had to go back to work. I started using a program called Talon Voice in order to control my computer almost entirely via my dulcet tones. It was actually really cool, my friends even started calling me a cyborg for a minute there. I got an eye tracker to move my mouse and everything, like a real disabled person!
People can even code with this software, it’s wild:
Via a combination of wrist braces, new drugs, quitting all video games and recreational use of my hands (listened to a lot of audio books), I slowly managed to get back to a ‘functional’ place with my job. Of course, none of this would’ve been possible without the patient and loving support of my girlfriend, to whom I owe an incredible amount for sticking with me through these difficulties. I shudder to think what would’ve happened if I didn’t have her by my side.
Either way, at this point I was several thousand dollars down the drain, and still partially crippled. Unfortunately, life wasn’t done with me yet.
The Sound of Silence
Hello darkness, my old friend…
When I first lost my voice, I like to think my girlfriend was secretly relieved. I do talk a lot, after all!
At first I thought I just had bronchitis or something, so I took a few days off of work to just let my voice recover. Surely it’s just a bug, right? Though in the back of my head, fear was rising that something even worse was coming for my already fractured health.
So I went back to work after my voice had recovered and, lo and behold, after just a couple days on the job, the voice went again. By this time I knew the drill, so I immediately researched the most well-regarded vocal therapist in the area, and scheduled an appointment.
Of course, it took multiple weeks to even see her, so I had to go on FMLA leave again. At this point I was starting to seriously eat into my savings I had carefully built up. Have I mentioned that FMLA leave is unpaid?
Regardless, given that my computer use had switched over almost entirely to voice, and I was still talking for my sales job, I suppose losing my voice was inevitable. At the time though, the defeat was crushing. First my legs hurt, then my jaw, my hands, and now my ability to even communicate with other human beings. What would God take away from me next?
I sunk into a pretty deep pit of despair at this point. I had struggled with suicidal thoughts as a teenager, but it’s a different animal contemplating suicide past 25 due to medical complications that multiple doctors have told you are essentially incurable. Admittedly, the drugs and booze probably didn’t help.
So I went to the vocal coach, added another set of tasks to my daily exercises to manage my various conditions, which at this point had ballooned to over two hours a day of stretching, doing vocal warm ups, doing specific exercises, self-massage via tennis ball, and resting in various positions to take the stress out of certain muscles.
At one point during this time, at the advice of my vocal coach, I completely stopped talking for two weeks. The idea was we could perhaps “reset” my vocal cords, and help me learn to speak in a more “natural” way. At first, this was brutal. I had always been quite chatty, and the silence was agonizing the first few days.
But after about a week of no talking, something strange started to happen. For the first time in a LONG time, I didn’t feel quite so hopeless. I couldn’t have explained it to you at the time (because I was silent, duh! ;P), yet I just started to get this sense of silliness. That even though my body was falling apart before my 30th birthday, my relationship was on the rocks because I couldn’t even talk to my girlfriend, and my managers were looking for excuses to fire me, there was a sort of… underlying okayness to the whole thing. I was able to laugh, and relax, despite my circumstances.
The Gates of Repentance
This priest has the best voice ever, seriously. Check out this chant, it’s amazing.
A little before the voice loss I had stumbled upon some people in the Talon Voice community talking about chronic pain being a spiritual/emotional issue. Up until now, I had sort of brushed this off while thinking eh, even if this is an emotional issue, how am I going to fix my emotions? I was already doing therapy as well and that barely helped.
So there I was, over $15,000 and years of my life spent on medical treatments that amounted to temporary bandaids at best, with little to no understanding of the deeper roots of my chronic pain, or how I was going to fix it. I had some inkling that maybe there was an emotional or spiritual issue, but I barely took it seriously. From a ‘logical’ perspective, things seemed quite bleak.
Something in the silence spoke to me, though. Despite my utter lack of belief in anything beyond the material, physical reality, I began to feel as if a presence was watching over me. I didn’t know it at the time, but looking back, it’s obvious to me that it was Christ reaching out, now that my heart had finally been humbled enough to hear Him.
Thomas Merton says:
In silence, God ceases to be an object and becomes an experience.
Perhaps he’s right.
While it would take a while for my heart to fully turn around, the bitterness that had consumed me slowly started to lift. Possibilities began to open up, doors opening that had seemed firmly shut. Before I began to believe in Christ, or even the supernatural, I started to believe in myself. In Life. From seemingly out of nowhere, a hope blossomed in my chest. A hope that I wouldn’t be a cripple, that I’d get to live a good life, despite my troubles, that somehow, some way, I would be able to overcome the various illnesses that had plagued me from my youth.
Glory be to God, that hope has been fulfilled. That’s a story for another time.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
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This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
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In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
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On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
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Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
This is the Quality Contributions Roundup. It showcases interesting and well-written comments and posts from the period covered. If you want to get an idea of what this community is about or how we want you to participate, look no further (except the rules maybe--those might be important too).
As a reminder, you can nominate Quality Contributions by hitting the report button and selecting the "Actually A Quality Contribution!" option. Additionally, links to all of the roundups can be found in the wiki of /r/theThread which can be found here. For a list of other great community content, see here.
These are mostly chronologically ordered, but I have in some cases tried to cluster comments by topic so if there is something you are looking for (or trying to avoid), this might be helpful.
Quality Contributions to the Main Motte
Contributions for the week of January 27, 2025
Contributions for the week of February 3, 2025
Contributions for the week of February 10, 2025
Contributions for the week of February 17, 2025
Contributions for the week of February 24, 2025
@dev:
This isn't a large question. Because of the users we have here, I think we could all benefit from short sharp tips to edit our own words.
In this topic, can you provide advice on how to curate yourself when you throw words in speech and on 'paper'.
Links to 'speechcraft' sources are appreciated.
I'll start:
- Take a second to think about how someone else would hear your words if they were you. (rule 0)
- Curate and cut your words before you throw them.
- "Brevity is the soul of wit" - Hamlet - Shakespeare.
This thread may be unpopular; so be it. If I reach a single person, that is enough.
Seven years ago, I discovered my life's purpose -- but didn't realize it at the time. I had discovered Buddhism, and this notion that one could attain perfect happiness without a single material possession instantly lifted up my spirit from the depths it had remained in since childhood, since I had learned of death, and had heard those stories of children who become orphans from a plane crash, knowing that the only thing separating us from them is a stroke of luck. And that chasing any happiness in this world is to embrace a dice roll with a good probability of immense suffering. You can call it silly, but to single-digit-age me, consigning yourself to fate like this was more or less insane, and that was only confirmed by the large quantity of childhood suffering outside of my control. So from there I ducked out of (most) socializing to learn everything I could, unconsciously in response to this issue.
When I discovered Buddhism, I was truly elated for the first time in years, to this doctrine promising everything that I had desired. But as I dug deeper, I encountered problems with this scripture, and meditation and so on that could only build to one conclusion: Enlightenment is not real. The pieces building up to this conclusion are too numerous to list, but essentially there is little evidence to believe in a state of enlightenment qua profound transformation of your moment-to-moment experience where the problem of change is solved. What does happen though is a non-dualist revelation analogous to the mystic experiences of all religions. In fact, for the Hindus and Jains it was this experience that led to liberation in the next life. Nothing came afterward. Now consider that yoga and meditation were practiced in India for a solid millennium before Buddhism, and if such a state existed the Hindus and Jains would have surely noted it. So this revelation is quite achievable, but it is functionally the end of the mystic path. There is almost no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Now, why am I writing this post...? Because I can't accept that outcome. I refuse to believe it simply ends there, and we have a healthy amount of evidence that is largely ignored which gives us reason to be skeptics. Here's a brief list:
- Meditative jhanas exist, and they are (allegedly) the most pleasant sensation a human can experience, they can be sustained for hours, and demand very little energy. These show up on brain scans.
- You can take drugs in a lucid dream, and this produces the effects of the drug (for the majority). What's more, if you imagine a drug you've never tried, it will match whatever you expect to occur.
- The human body functions remarkably well on drugs, or in other altered states of consciousness.
- LSD has been observed to produce virtually any symptoms imaginable, or even no symptoms at all.
- LSD-like effects may be obtained easily through hyperventilation, at no cost to oneself (save a little energy).
- I have myself replicated some effects of alcohol and cough syrup through meditation.
- Predictive processing is a fact at this point; we humans play an active role in constructing our perceptions.
- Meditation has effects on the parasympathetic nervous system we did not know were possible until recently. Wim Hoff and Tummo do as well.
Hence the following conclusion:
- There is little reason to believe in the "No free lunch" theory of human happiness, that is to say, that our good must be obtained at some expense.
You can take a very, very tentative stance that our body's homeostasis lends itself to survival by default, but that perhaps by some mysterious process this homeostasis may be changed, and so effects that are normally won through bitter exertion are now had easily.
I am aware this is fringe -- probably too fringe for here, honestly. But be aware you are my best shot. The Buddhists are too dogmatic, the dreamers are too "spiritual". There is clearly something worth investigating here, but apparently nobody is doing so. My tag is crashestoearth on discord, but I'm responsive here as well. Add me if you're curious, and skeptics too please chime in. If you are a Buddhist dogmatist though I'm not interested. Thanks for reading.
To add, work is more than earning a living. It's about creating social boundaries and ownership/control of one's time or whom one associates with. It's also about social status and connections. This can explain why many people continue to work even when no longer financially necessary. Living in America is especially stressful for middle-aged people, also known as the sandwich demographic, so work is an escape for these people. The option always exists to work less, but then you lose those boundaries. Not working means you're suddenly available. If people only chose to work for the sake of earning a living, people would work much less than they do.
I am not sure if its appropriate for The Motte main page, given the general topic of discussion. But I thought I'd share this anyway given that I think the story series might interest at least some of you here. As some of you may now I had kidney failure and then was subsequently on dialysis, then a transplant, now I am trying to come up with a solution to never be on dialysis again.
This particular chapter of this personal story covers the time period just before my kidneys failed. Its set in the high Alps, which adds a bit of something different.
Thought this would be useful
This was really popular last week, I was really impressed with how many hardworking hobbyist type people we have here. It got me motivated to do some of my own things.
As a reminder, this thread is for anyone working on personal projects to share their progress, and hold themselves somewhat accountable to a group of peers. We can coordinate weekly standup type meetings if their is interest.
Post your project, your progress from last week, and what you hope to accomplish this week.
Also naming the thread. Tinker Tuesday or taskmaster Tuesday, or something else? I switched the thread to Tuesday instead of Monday because the culture war thread refreshes on Monday.
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
So there's an Australian federal election today (the polls in the Eastern states close in 20 minutes), and apparently we have top-level posts for Five Eyes federal elections.
So, here's a top-level post for the Australian federal election. Polls are predicting a Labour landslide (thanks Obama Trump, we really needed all that friendly fire), but we live in the age of Shy Tories so one can never be 100% sure.
I just voted; below the line all the way (I would have voted above the line, except for the whole "I like the Nationals a lot more than the Liberals" thing), and I didn't even get to eat democracy sausage afterward. So now I'm cranky and miserable, though that might also be because I've been up for 24 hours or so.
One Nation didn't actually show up at the polling place I went to, which was odd; they did last time, though it moved a few streets over.
I think I voted lower on the Libertarian Party than I otherwise would have due to not realising they were the Liberal Democrats and/or vaguely recalling something about a joint ticket with Clive Palmer. Whoops.
I rate myself as like a 3/10 on engagement this election; I'm usually more active about pushing civil defence, even if it's basically yelling at a brick wall.
This is the Quality Contributions Roundup. It showcases interesting and well-written comments and posts from the period covered. If you want to get an idea of what this community is about or how we want you to participate, look no further (except the rules maybe--those might be important too).
As a reminder, you can nominate Quality Contributions by hitting the report button and selecting the "Actually A Quality Contribution!" option. Additionally, links to all of the roundups can be found in the wiki of /r/theThread which can be found here. For a list of other great community content, see here.
These are mostly chronologically ordered, but I have in some cases tried to cluster comments by topic so if there is something you are looking for (or trying to avoid), this might be helpful.
Quality Contributions to the Main Motte
Contributions for the week of March 31, 2025
Contributions for the week of April 7, 2025
Contributions for the week of April 14, 2025
Contributions for the week of April 21, 2025
Contributions for the week of April 28, 2025
This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Happy New Year!
This is the Quality Contributions Roundup. It showcases interesting and well-written comments and posts from the period covered. If you want to get an idea of what this community is about or how we want you to participate, look no further (except the rules maybe--those might be important too).
As a reminder, you can nominate Quality Contributions by hitting the report button and selecting the "Actually A Quality Contribution!" option. Additionally, links to all of the roundups can be found in the wiki of /r/theThread which can be found here. For a list of other great community content, see here.
These are mostly chronologically ordered, but I have in some cases tried to cluster comments by topic so if there is something you are looking for (or trying to avoid), this might be helpful.
Quality Contributions to the Main Motte
-
"You may think certain cases are bullshit, but the plaintiff is still suffering, and I'm saying this as part of the defense bar." (with bonus content)
-
"Just Finished The Instigator: How Gary Bettman Changed the NHL and Remade the Game Forever."