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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   2894 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for March 15, 2024

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Can someone explain to me: engagement rings, wedding rings, and wedding bands?

In the normal course of events, how many total rings are involved? Which ones are meant to have big gems on them, and which ones aren't?

Are there some sort of trends in what they're made of, what gems are common to use, etc.? (I've only ever heard of diamond, but I really don't know.)

I guess following on from that: is it really a common action to do the one-knee, surprise, "Will you marry me?" thing? Would you or did you do this? If you are the recipient of a wedding proposal, how would you want that to happen?

My engagement ring was an armillary sphere (much like this one, only with a gemstone), which had a disadvantage of being impossible to resize. I had to be extra careful when picking the size, so after some back and forth with the jeweler he sent me a few measuring bands that he uses (turns out that much like shoe sizes, the actual dimensions of the "same" size can vary slightly depending on the vendor). That left me no choice but to present them to my now-wife openly, so she new that a proposal was coming, eventually. In the end, it was a good outcome because she tends to get overwhelmed when presented with sudden situations and that setup enabled her to have just the right level of surprise :)

Because the engagement ring is elaborate, for the wedding rings we decided on a simple design.

You need to know two things:

  • your fiancĂ©e's ring size: just wait until you see her wearing some new jewelry and ask if she bought it recently, keep talking about jewelry shopping until you can ask about her size, then write the size down before you forget. Or use another opportunity to talk about it.
  • what she wants from her engagement ring: again, you want mutual plausible deniability, so send her memes with dudes proposing in public in inappropriate places, whenever someone you know is engaged mention it and see how she reacts to what they did, mention the ring that was used and look at her reaction. Women are smart and will basically tell you what they want if you let them: "on no, if someone actually proposed to me in front of so many people I would die of cringe" or "oh wow, this is so romantic!", "have you seen Becky's engagement ring? The shit's so tacky, it's like one of these Super Bowl rings. Me? Oh, I would rather wear something thin and delicate, with colored gemstones arranged in a floral motif" or "did you know that Brad proposed to Stacy with his grandma's ring? What a cheapskate, how hard can it be to buy a proper diamond ring!"

The second piece of advice applies to weddings as well. Use every opportunity and she will tell you what she wants. If she's into weddings where everyone in the party has to wear identical suits/dresses and fewer than 300 guests is unthinkable and the wedding cake has to have fifty layers, just run, don't even break up with her, just ghost her and move to another state.

As an addendum, if you find it impossible to get her to start talking about the topic but really want to marry her, it's better to have a straightforward discussion and ask her preferences than to try to guess. The risk of her saying "Oh... no" after a public proposal isn't worth the gains of a happy romantic memory if you're not already sure what her answer will be.

everyone in the party has to wear identical suits/dresses

The rest is debatable, but come on! It's so nice going to a black tie event where people follow the dress code and everything looks neat and tidy and aesthetically pleasing. Modernity is already so ugly, dress codes already so rare. Let us have this.

How many people actually own a tux these days? And I was talking about stuff like "all groomsmen will wear dark green double-breasted suits" and "creative black tie".

How many people actually own a tux these days?

I’d say most middle/upper-middle class British men do, in my experience. The Austrians like their balls, too.

For what it's worth, almost nobody owns a tux in the US. The only time most people will ever wear one is if they are groomsmen (or the groom) at a wedding, and they rent one for that. So asking everyone to wear a tux is a bigger ask here.

High school proms also feature a lot of tuxes, though those seem to be less popular than they used to be.

Yeah, I know, although I’d say it’s a little more common than that in the upper middle class on the east coast, I’ve attended black tie wedding receptions before in NYC.

To quote Vladimir Lenin, they form but a narrow group. They are very far removed from the people.

There's a difference between having a dress code and having everyone wear the same color. It's such a tiresome imposition on the guests to buy or rent clothes for this one event.

Black tie is even a step worse into the ugliness of modernity. The Dutch Reformation basically killed colors in formalwear and now we all have to live with the consequences. Let people wear some colors, as people have done for thousands of years before the Protestants fucked it up.

People wear ugly and garish colors all the time though, just look at modern streetwear. If this was corporate life in Japan or the City of London in 1957 then a healthy opposition to bland dress code conformity would be fair. But it isn’t. Today, black tie events are one of the only kinds of occasions when the holistic beauty of a crowd, that symphony of aesthetic harmony, is actually visible. Even office jobs now see a huge variety of outfits, colors and cuts. And rooms just sing when everyone’s in black tie, your eye isn’t immediately drawn to the people and their dress but to the whole space, the event, the vibe, man as collective becomes visible. It’s beautiful, in a way even a collection of fabulous but varied outfits could not be.

I can't hear you over the sound of my novelty suit :V

(The sound is ă‚´ă‚´ă‚´ă‚´ )

Do I have to be wary, perhaps, of touching doorknobs?

Agree, though this is all opinion. I am a great fan of the dinner jacket/tuxedo. I was very tempted (and still am) to get a custom tuxedo made for myself from a guy I now refer to as "my tailor" in Bangkok (he has made suits for US presidents--this to me speaks of quality of material and detail, if not style). I am a dinner jacket fan when I have only worn a tuxedo twice in my life and probably would have to search for reasons to wear one again. A man can always add a bit of sprezzatura by throwing in a unique pocket square, or cufflinks, or even socks if it means that much. That said, I am from a part of the world where the term "suit" is akin to "straightjacket" and most men would happily show up in a black t-shirt and jeans to any affair, including weddings, funerals, or the dubbing ceremony of their son by the King of England. I sometimes wonder if this is why I left. It's probably part of it.

Nah, the high status dress in most big cities is neutrals. Just open up an Eileen Fisher or Everlane catalogue.

You're entitled to like black tie (obviously), but it's decidedly a feature of modernity. Acting as if it's a rebellion against it is totally incoherent. People did not dress in black and white until comparatively recently.

People didn’t dress in t-shirts until comparatively recently. And I think you’re being a little unfair: yes, a lot of people dress in neutrals and shades, but the vibe of a bunch of people in thirty shades of tan/beige/blue/black quarter zips and slacks of various colors, or generic women’s office wear, still isn’t as coherent or visually impressive as outfit consistency is. It’s still a huge, varied cacophony of cuts, fits, shapes and colors, even if neon green and pink are rare (although not as rare as you seem to be suggesting, at least in high fashion or in events where people are really showing off).

Of course black tie is modern, it only replaced white tie less than a century ago, and even that wasn’t very old at that time. I don’t like it because it’s old, I like it because it’s coherent and because it’s a uniform. A dress code is a rebellion against (recent) [post, if you insist]modernity, where the increasing casualization of business dress, dinner dress, theater dress, party dress and every other kind of dress code is perhaps the single most notable trend in fashion. If I could enforce white tie or morning suits (both, depending on time of day of each event) at my wedding I would, but alas, as an American, it would be considered unfair on my guests.

I'd say 4 or 3. 1 engagement ring each and the man could possibly reuse the engagement ring as the wedding ring/band. Alternatively, only the woman gets an engagement ring and both get a wedding ring. Its culture bound.

The woman's engagement ring usually have stones, often diamonds.

The wedding rings are frequently just bands but again, the woman's ring can have stones.

Engagement rings for men are a psyop.

I have literally never heard of engagement rings for men, and my family is in the jewelry business.

As opposed to engagement rings for women?

Don't get me started, although the Romans had engagement rings (although probably not wedding rings afaik).

I don't know about that, I liked showing off that I was engaged. You still don't need to get a second ring.

It's important to note that this is all very culture-dependent and even varies from person to person, so there's no one answer here. That said... in the US, the typical situation you see is for an engagement ring (given at proposal time to the woman), followed by a wedding band exchanged at the wedding. Women will typically wear both once they have both.

Diamond rings are the most common engagement ring, which you probably know already. That generally means a single large diamond (like half a karat or more), possibly with other smaller gemstones (of various types) depending on the design. Lots of people don't want that, though. For wedding bands... I certainly have never noticed a trend. They seem to be a zone where anything goes as long as it's a ring. You'll probably want to pick something that goes nicely with your girl's engagement ring, since she'll be wearing them both (and sometimes jewelers have matched sets to make that easier), but that's really about it.

The most important thing when it comes to engagement rings is to get something your girlfriend will like. Some women like diamond rings and won't settle for anything else. Some women absolutely do not want a diamond ring, and prefer other gemstones. Some don't want a ring at all - I have a friend whose fiancee wanted an engagement necklace, not a ring. You're going to need to talk to her and find out what her preferences are and what kind of designs she likes. The way I handled this (and I thought it worked well) was that I went to a few stores myself and found a ring that I thought she would like. Then, I took her ring shopping but did not take her to the store where I had found the one I had in mind. I paid attention to what she liked and didn't like in terms of ring designs and diamond cuts, so that i knew she would like what I got her. That way, I had a good idea she would like the ring, but it would still be a surprise because she hadn't seen it before.

For proposal methods, this is going to be unique to every couple. In movies they love to show the guy taking a knee and producing a ring box, but in real life you don't have to do that at all. The key is just to come up with something that isn't stressful for the woman (so, probably don't do the thing where your propose on the court during halftime at a basketball game), and you both will be able to look back on fondly. The only real advice I can give you is something a coworker gave me when I was figuring out how to propose: if you can, make it at a place which will last. Restaurants come and go, who knows if the one you proposed at will still be there in 20 years time? Ideally you want something you know you can go back to in order to reminisce. For that reason I chose to propose while we were at Bear Lake in Rocky Mountain National Park. I put the ring in my pocket (which was hella stressful, I was so paranoid about a hole tearing in the pocket lol), and when we were walking around the lake we sat on a bench. When the moment felt right I asked her to marry me, and simultaneously pulled the ring out of my pocket and held it up for her to see. The nice thing is, we can always go back to our spot in the future. But that's what made sense for me and my wife, you gotta do what's right for you.

My husband bought a matching set of a wedding band and an engagement ring. He was trying to plan a "will you marry me" thing, but I accidentally called him my fiance at one point, and in response he gave me the engagement ring unceremoniously. He held onto the wedding band until the wedding itself, where rings are exchanged in the ceremony.

My engagement ring has a sapphire centered, with several small diamonds and sapphires studding the band of the engagement ring and the wedding band.

Before the wedding, around when I went dress shopping, I bought a wedding band to give my husband. It is a simple band, with no engravings or settings, that matches the band of my rings.

We're both conservative, but counter-cultural. We didn't follow the script from movies, TV shows, or internet advice columns. But we also talked about marriage and starting a family for a long time before our official engagement. We knew what the other thought was important about the engagement process and what we didn't care about at all.

But in the normal course of events:

3 rings total. The man gives the woman a ring with a large stone during the engagement. Then at the altar, the man and the woman exchange simple rings. It is possible and recommended for the man to buy a set upfront if he's confident the woman will agree to the engagement.

The man "pops the question" on a date. Usually a more fancy date than usual.

Diamonds on a gold band are still favored. Find out ahead of time if your Girl Friend has any aesthetic or ethical reasons that they do not like diamonds. You can go necklace shopping for her birthday, for example, and see how she reacts to the suggestion to get a diamond necklace. Sapphire is a very good alternative, about as durable as a diamond for all practical purposes and come in some nice colors.

Thanks @gattsuru for reposting my prior screed on engagement rings so I don't have to.

Additional answers:

I proposed in a fake surprise down on one knee way. She knew it was coming but I didn't involve her in ring shopping or anything. I think involving her in ring shopping can be bad in that she'll be aware of the compromises, where when she is surprised by it she'll be pleased with whatever you choose. Personally I'm more worried about having to tell her that I can't/won't afford X than about her disliking the thing I get.

In my opinion, the bands exchanged at your wedding should be plain gold. This makes sure you both have the practical classy always in style plain option right off the bat, and also leaves you room to upgrade later. You can get her a more elaborate wedding band as a Valentine's or anniversary gift years from now. ((This may be specific to me, Mrs. FHM is both very minimalist and very expensive and very choosy, so I have minimal open slots to buy her jewelery))

Congratulations!

I think involving her in ring shopping can be bad

It does take away the chance to do a surprise proposal.

in that she'll be aware of the compromises

But this? Depends on the woman. My wife picked out a heart-cut diamond, with a tiny occlusion that made it lower priced than most diamonds its size. Her show of fondness for something that was cute and unique but kind of untraditional and weird, big but kind of flawed and cheap if you look too closely... it was a really good sign.

It does take away the chance to do a surprise proposal.

My take on this is, if you're ready it shouldn't be any real surprise that you are proposing. The exact details of the proposal can be a surprise, but you don't want to catch her completely off guard with it. So it isn't really a problem to involve her with the ring shopping, because she should already know that you are in the stage of the relationship where it's on the table.

Interesting. I suppose it could play out that way. I've definitely been in that position when someone shopped for me. I guess that section was hypothetical rather than empirical.

[some previous discussion here, with this being some of the better advice]

[caveat: I'm... not a traditionalist, here, so to speak]

Wedding rings vs wedding bands are mostly a female/male thing. Bands are usually simpler, favoring engraving (if that!) over stones. The wedding ring/band is given during the wedding ceremony itself. Engagement ring is what someone offers as part of the "Will you marry me", and at least in recent years is usually the more complex or pricey part.

Stone matters a lot on the person. Diamonds are the traditional high-value stone, because they're relatively resistant to casual scratching (though very vulnerable to impact and to low pressure!) and their value, but in some circles they're increasingly disfavored over ethics of diamond mining. Some people do really love the idea of a gem that matches their eyes, or have favorite gems, or love the idea of their 'birth stone', or whatever: for someone that's not wanting the traditional deal, this can get you a much bigger stone or more small stones for much less price.

I will caution about soft stones, though; a lot of women like opal, but it's a bitch to maintain and you basically never can wear it.

For bands, traditional offerings are gold or silver alloys: few people are allergic to the common ones, and they have a wide array of possible coloration. Titanium has picked up in popularity for men's rings, and it's nicely light-weight, but comes with the caution that it's a pain in the tuckus to cut safely if it gets stuck or in a medical emergency. Platinum and palladium sometimes show up as super-chemically-stable options, because they resist chlorine so well, but they're softer than common gold/silver alloys and kinda a bitch. More esoteric options are available, but come with risks -- there's weirdos doing everything from etched superconductor to exotic hardwoods, but you'd want to talk with your SO before even considering them, and many of them can't be resized.

Avoid nickel and very-nickel-heavy alloys; not only are a lot of people allergic, nickel sensitivity can build up over time, and they're very sensitive to long-term chlorine exposure. Bronze/brass/copper sometimes work, but they need to be sealed (usually a wax or lacquer that must be applied every couple months) or be manufactured with a (non-galvanically-compatible) internal metal sleeve, or they'll leech onto your skin, leaving green discolorations -- not harmful but not what you're looking for in a daily wear.

((I'd assume you're het or in a male/female relationship, but for completeness: A lot of gay guys just go with dual-wedding bands, no engagement ring; my brother and his husband exchanged some pretty classy titanium/accent bands that imo are a lot more practical and pleasant-looking than the traditional gold-and-rock combo. I have no idea what the norms are for lesbians.))

Wedding proposals are similarly socially-bound in a lot of ways; some women really like the idea, but it's also a lot of pressure and possible humiliation. Some 'surprises' are either discussed beforehand or very very heavily implied beforehand.

That previous discussion does look pretty much right to me.

For bands, traditional offerings are gold or silver alloys: few people are allergic to the common ones, and they have a wide array of possible coloration.

For traditional, hard to beat gold for inertness in terms of resistance to tarnish and allergen potential. Also has the pros of being easy(ish) to resize and easy(ish) to cut off in an emergency.

For non-traditional bands I would add tungsten as an option. Its density does make the ring feel "special" though it can also be a con if the the weight is bothersome to you. Tungsten is also pretty good on inertness. You should probably be able to shatter a tungsten ring in an emergency, but that assumes the person removing the ring recognizes that's the right approach. Personally, I go for a silicone band in situations where a band might be expected but I might be doing light stuff with my hands. In the shop or any other place where there is any risk of a degloving injury absolutely no jewelry. Have a dedicated place to place your ring in the shop so it doesn't get lost.

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