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So much clueless discourse and blathering on here really makes me think that a lot of people here have rather interestingly false conceptions of the gap between them and an attractive man in terms of dating success. That's not to speak of the absolutely massive gap between the average man and the average woman that I think could do with some amount of rectification though the use of a couple particularly pertinent examples. In short-- the average man i.e a guy who would probably get rated a 6 or 7 by most people is virtually invisible to women online to a degree that's frankly quite horrific when you compare it to the experience of an attractive man. The average guy could probably expect to reasonably manage about 5 to 10 likes a day, probably dropping off to less than that after the first week, with maybe a couple matches a week and perhaps 1 out of 50 matches actually converting to a date and an even smaller proportion converting to anything more significant than that. That doesn't sound too bad, right?
The thing is, an attractive man isn't just getting say 10% more matches, or even just doubling their matches. The amount of attention they get from women usually dwarfs the average male by several orders of magnitude. The top profiles on Tinder, Hinge, Bumble, are maxing out the like counter in give or take under an hour, the rungs below that with ease in under a day and so on and so forth. There are plenty of men who are not rich, not famous, not exceptional in any way really other than the face God gave them and perhaps the muscles Trenbolone gave them (though if you're thinking steroids alone will make you one of these men, you're living in a world of delusion-- women want the complete package) breaking 20,000 matches in relatively modest sized metro areas like Copenhagen, Stockholm or Denver. I should probably note that these profiles are typically white men though, as funnily enough even here racial gaps manifest, though this is frankly a matter of degrees, as even these disadvantaged attractive men of color are usually not lacking for women-- but it's going to be generally significantly less attractive and desirable women and they'll have to be a point or two better than their white counterpart to compete. These men have such an abundance of choice and easy access to women that they effectively dwell in a completely separate reality when compared to the average man-- they are the pickers and choosers and have no desperate need to compromise or settle down with one woman. Think of the gap between a man with 70 IQ and a man with 160 IQ in terms of capacity for intellectual output and perhaps multiply that gap a few times and you'll have a somewhat decent grasp of the dynamic in play here.
No amount of game or self improvement will ever get you close to that if you lack the genetic basis for it. It's like thinking a 70 IQ man can become a world class physicist and win the Nobel prize if he just tried hard enough-- the world doesn't work that way.
It's well known that attractive women have their pick of the litter, but I'll just add in that a woman need not be particularly attractive to be bombarded with options. The average girl you see on the street could open any dating app and find literal thousands of men throwing themselves at her within a day, maybe two or three if she's a bit ungifted in the face. Though as with attractive men, there's a pretty big gap between the kinds and amount of attention that white women get, and every other race of woman, including Asian women (of the northeastern and southern varieties) and having blue or green eyes supercharges this a surprising amount.
Here's an album of proof
And this is why only clueless people use pure online dating. Meet girls IRL. Chat with her a bit. Take her contacts. Is it THAT hard?
That's not how couples meet anymore. Especially among young people, who don't get out much anyway, they grew up in the digital world, and Covid made this even sharper. You can't meet Gen Z girls by just 'going out.'
The gender ratios in most public spaces are skewed towards men, which also makes women more averse to being approached over and over agan.
Women can get on the dating apps or any social media site and get all the attention she wants, so there's no need for her to entertain IRL offers.
Yes.
Now what.
What exactly are you looking for here?
Do you just want people to tell you that it's hopeless? Very well then. It is hopeless. I agree that you should give up hope. Do with this what you will.
If this is a prelude to arguing for certain policy proposals, then it would be more interesting if you made the case for those policies directly, instead of gesturing angrily at the stats and insisting that something (what, exactly?) must be done.
Stack guns and ammo, get multiple passports and generally prepare for the strife that inevitably comes from cultures rife with men that have nothing to lose.
There is nothing else to do because any solution would undermine the status quo too much.
I see this online a lot lately: supposedly all these "tfw no girlfriend" guys are going to rise up. "You are in danger!"
No. These guys are, frankly ,not the warfighting kind. They'll jack off to porn and seethe and imagine burning it all down (and you'll get the occasional Elliott Rodgers) but there's no movement of dateless men ready to "do something" and even a more political Andrew Tate probably couldn't move them to that kind of action.
You misunderstand. There is not going to be the prophetized "beta uprising" where wizards use their magical powers to enslave normies, that's not how things work.
Society is just slowly going to become lower and lower trust until it becomes an incomprehensible mess and collapses under its own weight. Incels are not going to do something, they're going to do nothing. And your society needs a whole load of something to work.
Tate is a good symptom of this actually. Note that he does not advocate people engage in pro-social behavior and become pillars of their community, only in looting. Get your own, pump and dump, get the lambo, evade taxes, scam others. Because if society is not willing to offer a fair deal, that's all that's left.
There's no talk of marrying and having children and buying a house and paying into your retirement fund here.
You will see violence. But that's because decay and lawlessness invite it. "These guys" are not going to go out and harm people for the most part, but they won't stop those that would.
I see. That's a more depressing prediction, though perhaps more realistic.
I don't see dateless men being a significant factor in that, though. I don't actually believe incels are a factor at all, other than online.
All the men who maintain your civilization are human beings with emotional needs you know. Large proportions of them having no stake in the future is going to have some consequences. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter.
There's a reason the people of the past thought so well of marriage that they literally made it sacred. We're just going to painfully relearn why.
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If it is indeed hopeless, than we can at long last dispense with the concept of building anything for the future. Loot what you can, while you can.
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My observations shows that the genz are as outgoing as the millenials and X-ers before them. They gather and drink beer in the park when the weather is warm, love going out clubbing, love going out on hikes and so on and attend shittons of house parties. There is probably selection bias since I drink quite a lot with the outgoing ones, but I don't think that there is massive epidemic of reclusive people.
Covid did move to house partying - but that is not a problem - you could obtain or host one.
Nearly half of Gen Z guys say they're not dating at all.
You're SEEING some of them out, but how many of them are you just not seeing because they're not visible.
You have put quite a lot of links showing that single people are not trying, few that prove it is hard.
...
Is your belief that out of nowhere, for no reason at all, young people, around the planet, have chosen to 'stop trying', unlike every other generation that came before them?
Does that pass muster to you?
Or is it just possible that it got HARDER, (and/or the rewards have diminished) which made it much less appealing to try?
Anyway, here you go:
https://archive.is/X72VS
Tons of analysis of the issue.
A decent summation:
I've spent inordinate amounts of time researching this stuff. I'm not 'proud' of that, but I can provide you just about whatever form of evidence you want.
Here, check out how dating apps work in South Korea, which is even worse off than the U.S.:
https://instagram.com/reel/DFyqCOmz-LM/
Does that seem 'reasonable' to you, or is it maybe a lot more competitive than it used to be?
"For no reason at all" is a strawman. Looking at the wide variety of hedonistic pleasures available to the 2020s twenty-something from the comfort of their own couch, it's not surprising that fewer and fewer people are "going out" - with each other or otherwise. Going outside, literally, has lost a lot of its appeal relative to other stuff you could be doing with your free time. It's hardly surprising that this applies to going out to meet girlfriends/boyfriends just as it applies to going out to meet platonic friends in-person. Logging into the groupchat has replaced meeting the lads at the bar. I'd never have met my first girlfriend if I hadn't been in the habit of meeting up with mixed friends, in person, outside, and that's happening less and less.
Yes.
But this is my point. Yelling at men to 'get better' is not a viable solution when the reason they're not putting in the effort are mostly attributable to FACTORS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL.
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Bars aren't that much better, often lower quality women and more women than men. Starting a hobby to meet women is not efficient at all. Signing up for tennis/pottery or language classes just to meet women is a massive commitment of time to say high to maybe one or two single women in your age group.
Bars and clubs have kind of died as a place for 'average people to unwind', especially past University age. There's simply too much competition from other entertainment mediums, atleast in my experience. A certain subset of extroverted nightlife enjoyooors rotate around between eachother visibly, but as a subset of the population I believe it's smaller than it has been historically.
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That’s obviously not what people mean when they say meet people in real life. You’re right that most hobby groups are filled with retirees, because those are the people who have time to do those things.
You meet people in real life by making friends, getting invited to parties, meeting more people, getting invited to more parties (by which I include everything from barbecues to housewarmings to weddings to Halloween to NYE, whatever) until you have a relatively busy social schedule because one of your dozens of friends and acquaintances is probably hosting something this weekend and you’re invited.
100%. This very night, I caught up with my best friend and his rather inebriated girlfriend. A little bit into the conversation, she interrupted me and asked me if I was considering getting married, to which I reacted in the affirmative, albeit in a year or two. She immediately tried to set me up with her sister, and by set up, asked me if I wanted to marry her.
Having platonic female friends is life on easy mode, women love few things more than matchmaking. Prove that you're not a creep, and they'll send people your way.
I can remember several platonic female friends complain about women in their circles that no one was interested in, and then refuse to make introductions.
Were the guys that they refused to make introductions for lacking social proof? The guy they've never seen in a relationship before, even if a good guy in other aspects of his life is not a known good party for a relationship, he's an unknown, untested, possibly one that has some red flags that scare women away because increasingly as a man gets older from a woman's (mistaken) point of view it should have happened at organically if there was nothing "off" relationship wise with this guy.
Once a guy has just one relationship that wasn't completely disastrous done, only then have I seen women willing to endorse him.
It's the classic 'Your need several years experience to get an entry-level job' problem.
No wonder people compare dating nowadays to job-hunting.
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Not in my experience. I have had plenty of platonic female friends, but none of them ever tried to set me up with someone. Nor (as far as I'm aware) did they do so for any other dudes they were friends with. I can only speculate as to why, though (generational difference? nerdy women don't get into matchmaking the way normie women do? who knows).
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This is key and what a lot of dating discourse neglects. The problem is that many men who want a romantic partner often aren't particularly interested in making more platonic friends. Psychologically, it also feels a lot more indirect (compared to being told how to looksmax or how to cold approach), so can be difficult to generate enthusiasm for this approach.
I would also like to note that from the recent discourse about marriage in Mormons/religious groups, it was pointed out that the men are a lot more social and very regularly go to non-romantic social events where they get to know the women in their community (and the women get to know the men).
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You also don't need to start a new hobby to meet people. For hobbies with any women and even a modest number of young people taking any initiative, even the bare minimum, is often enough to make a big difference in your social life.
For example, my local hiking meetup was always desperate for hike organizers. What is involved with organizing a hike? Sending a single email to the list saying "Hey I'm going to X trail at Y time I expect it be Z difficultly. I can take 3 people from W parking lot, if you are arranging your own transport we leave promptly at Y from the trail head." By spending 30 seconds composing an email you get to:
You don't need to directly pull numbers at your hobby to have it expand your social circle.
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Do you have a manual on how to do this.
Arrange an event and invite the people you want to get to know better.
The main ingredients are an easily understood distracting activity or two that promotes interaction (cooking/eating, watching sport on a screen, simple table games, whatever suits you and your group), somewhere to rest and an informal atmosphere.
If you don't want to arrange something yourself look for similar low stakes events around your area and ask if they're thinking about going, then if they're open to the idea suggest meeting there.
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Set up a standing social event - church used to fill this role for many. You can still do that, but adding another regular event helps. It’s a low-effort way to invite people without the mental load of planning. For me, planning one-off events often fell through, so I stick to, “I’m at trivia at this spot every Thursday; first beer is on me.” People say young adults aren’t going out, but I see plenty of attractive mid-20-somethings at the trivia nights I hit up. Really want to amp it up, I have beautiful big dog (thanks to my wife) that is a magnet for women.
Get roommates and run the house so you can choose who lives with you. Bonus: you cover your rent. Double bonus if you can house-hack.
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Learn to cook and make cocktails. Create facebook events for house parties. Eventually someone will bring couple of girls they are hitting on. Befriend them. They have friends, they can invite other girls and they will vouch for you that you are cool guy and not a creep.
The average age of people on Facebook is like..55.
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Fuck.
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What?
She's not going to want to look at you with 20/20 vision.
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He likely means get her contact information.
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He means get her contact information, not steal her contact lenses. What PUAs call a number close (distinct from the k-close, which involves kissing, and the f-close, which involves fucking).
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