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Notes -
https://www.newsweek.com/video-appears-to-show-new-ice-shooting-in-minneapolis-11411971
Ice shooting round 2 has kicked off. Numerous rumors already flying around but will be a bit before we have facts I imagine.
EDIT: I've been asked to add some relevant points, I'll say: this comment has links to various angles: https://www.themotte.org/post/3493/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/405295?context=8#context This comment mentions the "Sig misfire" angle that I've seen a bit: https://www.themotte.org/post/3493/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/405451?context=8#context
Walz has activatedthe national guard: https://x.com/MnDPS_DPS/status/2012614253090619619 The NBA postponed the Minnesota/Golden State game tonight.
The video looks BAAAAD. Would like to see resident Trump supporters explain this one.
Resident partisan hack checking in (well sort of). I am making this comment in the spirit of “expressing a worldview” of “resident Trump supporters” as requested rather than to argue the point per se. But I do earnestly hold the following beliefs.
We (the right) now clearly understand that the purpose of this sort of protest is to create violent situations with “bad optics” for ICE or whatever other group. The protestors (from “our” point of view) want violence and want shootings, because they perceive this as a win condition.
We’re quite simply not going to give them the win anymore. They want death and violence, and are actively going out of their way to create situations that can cause escalation. That makes them, in my opinion which is shared by others with similar worldviews, the baddies. This guy was being a baddy, played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize.
I honestly haven’t watched the video and don’t care. We consider the instant replay era over. It really has no bearing whatsoever on the question of whether illegal immigrants should be deported.
That is the main reason these protests are not really succeeding. The only reason these situations are happening is because of the protestors (who we really consider at this point, insurrectionists who are committing federal crimes). “ICE needs to stop deporting illegal immigrants from Minnesota because some protestors are getting hurt.” There is literally zero logic to this statement.
We also don’t consider them legitimate protestors. They don’t have a “right” to impede federal law enforcement from executing the legal and popular will simply because they lost an election in which they were fairly represented.
It was probably a good shoot if you slow it down to 10k frames per second. Like I said, we honestly don’t know or care.
That is the view of (at least my slice of) the overly online right currently.
Is this a typo? ICE just killed a man. Seems like, if that's what they want, then you did in, fact, just give it to them.
No I don't think that's really the logic at all. The logic is that they perceive some injustice and protesting is the only tool in many of these people's toolbox.
Note that you will not hear the right say this about Kyle Rittenhouse, Proud Boys, the guys who killed Ahmaud Arbery, George Zimmerman, the deploymentment of national guard units for transparently political purposes, or any of Trump's intentionally inflammatory rhetoric over the last decade.
Thanks for the additional insight on the MAGA-right. It mostly demonstrates an inability to model the worldview of your opponents ("they want death and violence" lol), and a lack of objective standards for conduct.
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I think that the question of whether the protests are succeeding will not really be answered until the results of this year and 2028's elections come in.
The protests are not stopping deportations. However, whether or not these shootings were justified, the optics are bad - and that may have important political consequences which might possibly stop deportations a couple of years from now.
Also, a minor note about:
I agree that for the protestors this is a good strategy. If law enforcement full-out massacres a dozen or two protestors in a big shooting, this might be one of the best things that could possibly happen "for the cause" of the protestors. However, I don't think that any more than a tiny handful of protestors are actually driven by a desire to pursue this strategy. Some of the organizers might be, but even then I think it's a very rare motivation. I think most of them are genuinely just trying to interfere with ICE, to impede ICE activities. But they are in part following, because it is easier to do what has been done before, the well-worn tracks of decades of leftist tactics - and those tactics have evolved in part in order to create sympathetic media footage in which leftists have violence used against them.
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Ok now consider if appealing to only people with the exact same worldview as you, up to just straight up killing people without care because they're a "baddie" in your eyes is going to be a great strategy for 2026 and 2028 elections.
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I had a similar response. It’s hard to see anything in the video. But even if the officer technically made a mistake, there was enough confusion there (due to the hysterical protesters) that I believe he is blameless.
There is no situation where Trump admin should give a single inch on this. No situation where the man should be subject to the hostile MN government apparatus.
Federal agents cannot be prosecuted by the state for actions that occur during their duties. They can only be prosecuted at the federal level. He'll be fine, or at least safe from the MN government apparatus.
Just out of curiosity, does that include traffic violations? (E. g., an ICE agent going through a red light at 60 mph in a 25 mph zone.)
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Yeah, that's politics. Why are you surprised ? The adversary baits you, but do you need to bite ? The protests are getting more heated, because Trump is biting onto the bait.
The US is maximally polarized, but it has been for a while. The other party does everything it can to block their adversary. It's Mitch blocking Garland's confirmation. It's red governors banning blue city policies. It's business as usual.
In Canada, the farmers protests were clearly a conservative bait that Trudeau bit into, and it caused his downfall. The farmer's protest is another example of a political torpedo that would have brought Modi down in India. He avoided a few baits, primary among them was Sikhs replacing the Indian flag on the red fort. But no. No anti-protest rubber guns, no tear gas, nothing. He held his nerve, and IMO, it saved his govt. He eventually reformed the bill to involve state-by-state adoption and had to take an L. But, it could have been worse.
Look, as a kid, when I made fun of my sibling, he'd eventually snap and break something. I'd get punished for instigating, but he'd get a bigger punishment for giving in and breaking something (I promise we are very tight now, and I believe I have been a good brother on the balance). Point is, it doesn't matter what the bait is. The individual is still responsible for how they respond. Humans have an intuitive smell for this. Govts, laws or individuals, it doesn't matter. Biting onto to bait makes you a sucker. You may call them reasons, but the people will always view them as excuses.
You understand this thing where someone does something wrong which is ignored by authorities, then the person wronged responds, and then is punished by said authorities, is generally considered a failure mode, do you not?
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I dont think this is true. The nature of these riots makes it impossible for ICE agents to utilize public roads without provoking violence. If ICE does anything other than a complete withdrawal, these incidents will continue to happen, and they will continue to escalate into deadly use of force scenarios. We were actually getting close to the same point in the Chicago area a few months ago, but then some backroom deal was struck with the Johnson, Pritzker, and Homan (which they will all deny happened, but clearly did) and now random people aren't tailing ICE vehicles, ICE facilities aren't under siege as CPD watches paint cans fly at officers heads, and ICE aren't picking abuelas up out of taco stands, but they are being allowed to casually pick people up from the jails even though they aren't being officially "notified" when ICE warrants pop.
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See also: any sports flag for unsportsman like conduct. It's almost always the retaliation the refs notice and flag, not the instigation.
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It's not about biting. It's about not backing down, because just packing up and going home is even worse then what's happening now. A surrender like that will only make the next round of protesting 10x bigger.
Trump and ICE didn't do anything in response to the protests except keep trying to do their jobs. The enemy forced this by making simply running a country impossible.
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I second this almost completely.
As soon as I heard the whistling that was going on - I mean, what are we doing?
I want ICE to deport illegals … if you want to protest that than ok but you can’t stop this - it’s what I voted for!
Unfortunately they aren’t going after the business owners so it’s mostly optics but good damn at least they’re doing something about an issue.
Let’s see if I can walk the streets at night in the cities within my lifetime like you can in Poland.
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