domain:betonit.substack.com
ulyssessword
17m ago
The quote above is the pre-amble for the actual "joke"
How is it connected? I watched the clip until he started talking about the Emmys, and didn't notice anything that built off of that supposed setup. Let's go line-by-line:
- We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang Completely generic
- desperately trying to characterize (see below)
- this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk Yup, that's the topic.
- as anything other than one of them (continued from above) Never mentioned, referred to, reflected on, or used in any way. Not by Trump or by anyone else.
- and doing everything they can to score political points from it No, Trump was deflecting instead of focusing on it. Kimmel didn't focus on the contrast between his (unsupported) claim and Trumps statements or do anything else with the mismatch. Trump was even in "major change the subject mode". MTG did a bit, but that's all that was covered.
How is "desperately trying to characterize [him] as anything other than one of them" supposed to be the preamble for a joke? Did I simply stop watching too soon?
Roseanne clarifies -- she claims that the Obamas directly pressured the studio to fire her:
Remember when you and your wife called Bob Iger to have me fired?
Further, she has claimed in the past that she was tweeting about Valerie Jarrett in the context of criticising the Obama admin's Iran deal which she knew Jarrett was associated with. She now seems to making a harder claim that the Iran deal part was significant to her firing:
Because they aren’t the same. I wasn’t fired for lying I was fired for telling the truth about the Iran deal and slandered into oblivion. This will still be worse for our side than theirs. Kimmel will get an entire PR tour to clear his name with the backing of all media.
I don't personally find that very easy to believe, though I don't discount it 100%. The 1st claim I don't know, but it is not helped by the 2nd.
(it's also possible she's just extending the chain of causation back one step to reflect her subjective experience and does not really intend to be making a claim about the motive?)
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
47m ago
6.6 million is 2% of 330 million. 5% of 330 million is 16.5 million.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
57m ago
You can frame it that way if you wish. The problem is that it doesn't seem like many people in the wider culture are buying it. The ultimate test for any of the claims or perspectives we offer here are subsequent events: I am confident that framing this as "Kirk unleashed the inner That's Not Funny" is not going to turn the tide.
Time will tell.
Quantumfreakonomics
1hr ago
But if they're state-run, people won't notice if they're losing money! Medicare/medicaid are massive money pits, and yet Trump became dominant not despite but because of his comittment to not cutting them.
Mantergeistmann
1hr ago
I thought Eagles fans reserved that treatment for Santa Claus.
aqouta
1hr ago
Ah I see, then @FirmWeird, no I just read almost every post
aqouta
1hr ago
I think the equilibrium would be found where the things being said by the populist side would be so obviously stupid and ruinous that even the median voting American would be like "uh, I dunno, all the state run raw milk distribution centers are losing money, do we really want to nationalize coffee shops?"
Sloot
1hr ago
At one point a coworker cornered me before a 3 hour long meeting, and tried to make me talk about how I was doing.
Nosy or intrusive coworkers are a special rung of hell.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
1hr ago
I am not a moderator.
He may be referring to the volunteer comment-rating system that offers normal commenters to give their opinion on comments selected by automatic metrics.
aqouta
1hr ago
Have you been reading the thread or did you just come in midway because you got asked to moderate a post?
I am not a moderator.
This conversation was taking place in a hypothetical future where Israel is cut off from international trade and aid due to their genocide of the Palestinians - there wouldn't be any Gazans left to celebrate. We're discussing a worst case scenario, because my original point was that committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing is a terrible idea for Israel because it doesn't have the geography or natural resources in order to survive a future where it has lost the support of the US and other western allies.
Oh, I had not realized you meant genocide for real and not the way it's usually used in relation to Israel to describe a situation where populations don't actually ever decrease. This is often the problem with this expansion of terms. Although this is confusing because before you've alluded to Israel still being at war with some entity as their military protectionism being cut off was stated as some important thing. Is the west bank still in its current formation after this or are we imagining every Palestinian was genocided? Because it doesn't really seem lie any of Israel's other neighbors are exactly excited to get into a conflict with her. Are we proposing that like Arabs are blood lusted for the destruction of Israel like in those threads on super hero power scaling?
Frothing genocide? I'm not proposing any kind of genocide at all - I'm saying that Israel would fall apart if it became a pariah state, which is very different.
You're proposing the rest of the world commit a genocide by your own definition of blockading food imports. Or do you think what Israel is accused of doing doesn't count?
Moreover, as mentioned previously, a lot of the Israelis would simply just leave because grinding poverty in the desert is not a particularly tempting option when you have a passport that will take you to the first world
Up to half, almost certainly much fewer, could leave to the EU, although it's a weird kind of pariah state that you'd blockade food imports to but issue their citizens citizenship. but why would anyone accept refugees from this pariah state?
Also, you seem remarkably hostile here - I'm not trying to score points, but it seems like you're getting unreasonably angry about this topic.
I'm not angry really. Maybe I've misread you but this all pattern matches to a frustrating trope of implying that those jews should just fuck back off to Europe which is a microcosm of a kind of third worldist flavored grievance politic that I find incredibly distasteful. Wakanda wish casting.
anti_dan
1hr ago
Perhaps if your intent is to remain ignorant of how the Nazi's formed a winning coalition, but if you are interested in such things the genocide is more of an afterthought. Its obviously the most important thing when talking about their impact on world history, but when discussing domestic politics and drawing comparisons between the politics of various regimes it is very unimportant.
Quantumfreakonomics
1hr ago
Nybbler already pointed out that riots are pretty rare in the USA, so I am assuming that you are not American.
It wasn't the riots themselves, it was how the media -- not just the news media, but sports media, entertainment media, and social media too -- reacted. Everyone lost their minds. Those of us who had even a passing familiarity with the actual events got to see how the consent-manufacturing sausage was made.
crushedoranges
Can Marx explain the used panties market?
1hr ago
A) He would have lost terribly, because Bernie Sanders is a terrible campaigner and his target demographic was too far left of the American center. B) If he did, woke would have been more brazen, but with less institutional support, causing its collapse to happen earlier.
If you run as a Dem, you need black support, which is why Mayo Pete despite being the darling of the Clintonites is a dead man walking concerning his political prospects. Blacks will not vote for a gay man. It's such a foreseeable outcome that the outrage coming in about two years time will be a amusing bit of drama to spectate from the peanut gallery.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
2hr ago
but isn't there a grain of truth here?
No. Trump not wanting to bare his soul to some random journalist does not mean anything except that Kimmel is an unrepentant asshole.
TitaniumButterfly
2hr ago
To be fair, they weren't supposed to have the vote.
- I: Red Tribe Criminals
What's the deal with biker gangs?
Hunter S. Thompson followed a biker gang called the Hell's Angels. He wrote a book about his experience and the Angels became the most famous biker club/gang/organization in the world. The romanticization of biker gangs traveled far thanks to the interwoven cross-section of 1960s counterculture that helped popularize it. Groups of American ruffian drug traffickers on two-wheeled transport, sexual revolutionaries, and psychedelic entrepreneurs found commonality in their love of drugs and rebellion to the Man.
It's obligatory to mention that one time in 1969 where the Rolling Stones chose to hire America's most famous biker gang to provide security for a concert with 300,000 attendees. Things went about as well as one might expect. The ignominy of Altamont is sometimes framed as the end of an era. What's not said is who helped kick the end out of that era: drunk bikers. Bay Area hippies played a part in elevating their preferred drug traffickers and bad boy cousin heavies to legendary Americana status-- on par with other household outlaw names.
A romanticized, rugged individualist archetype is a favorite of Americans. If you tack on criminal then, baby, you got a stew goin'. The outlaw who plays by their own rules is not welcome in our towns, they are certainly not welcome around our daughters, but Americans undeniably welcome their stories into their imaginations. Media of the 21st century carries on the tale which, yes, includes dangerous, criminal elements, but also includes loyalty, faith, patriotism.
These are red blooded, freedom loving types of criminals. This is the organized crime profile of the Red Tribe. Someone probably once wondered why the swarthy ethnic criminals get to rent space in American heads -- Mexicans, Italians, even the Jews got their own -- before deciding it was only right that the white, protestant Middle America should collect rent too. As for the world, the aesthetic feels out of place in a place like the Netherlands, but clearly somewhere like the Mongolian Steppe is built for it. It is interesting that Australia shares the individualist frontier history, a similar fascination with the same style of 19thc. outlaw, and also has its own lovely bikie gang culture.
Respectable New England derived stock would never have allowed us to entertain a criminal mythos. It was the pioneers, ruffians, and rebels who helped shape the story of the American outlaw, and probably created it. These are the progeny of the Borderers, the trailblazers, underclass, and bushwhackers found far away from refined cosmopolitanism of Yankees. If you want to talk about biker gang and its intersectional qualities I invite it. I found another intersection reason to flesh out this idle thought last week.
Of course I speak of Gaza.
- II: What's the deal with the GHF operation in Gaza?
GHF would be the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation that popped up to distribute food aid this year. The organization itself was established in February in anticipation of Israel relieving its own embargo to manage food distribution. In May, only weeks after the program got off the ground, the founding GHF director quit. This was reported as a protest exit. The man himself said he quit as a duty to "strictly [adhere] to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence." This was, well, hmm interesting. As far as I know he never went so far to say, "Israel and the spooks took over," but that'd be one interpretation.
Charities dislike the GHF. The UN dislikes the GHF. The only entities that appear to support the GHF are Israel, the US State Department which throws some cash at it, and a number of evangelical Christian charities. Which is about about where the lines are drawn on more general opinion on Israel and its conflicts. Mike Huckabee, US ambassador to Israel, said private donations helped as well:
"It is not currently being funded largely by the U.S. There are other countries, there are NGOs, there are humanitarian funds, and there are private individuals who have funded it, all of which have requested to remain anonymous. I think they don't want to become the targets of the hate that has befitted those who have tried to do something positive in what is a very difficult situation."
- III: Deus Vult!
What do biker gangs and food distribution in Gaza have in common?
Reportedly there happens to be an American style biker gang social club operating out of Gaza right now. In the spirit Ukraine's Azov Battalion Brigade the BBC reported a story, constructed a story, or both: Anti-Islamic US biker gang members run security at deadly Gaza aid sites.
The firm guarding sites where aid is distributed in Gaza has been using members of a US biker gang with a history of hostility to Islam to run its armed security, a BBC investigation has found.
BBC News has confirmed the identities of 10 members of the Infidels Motorcycle Club working in Gaza for UG Solutions - a private contractor providing security at Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sites, where hundreds of civilians seeking food have been killed in scenes of chaos and gunfire.
Towards the end of the article the BBC expands its claims up to 40 -- out of 320 total -- security contractors from the Infidels Motorcycle Club (IMC) based on an unnamed source. IMC has a website. They present themselves as GWOT veterans who "reject the radical jihadist movement that threatens liberty and freedom around the world. The Infidels MC will support the fight against terrorism as military members, contractors in support of the military, and as patriotic Americans supporting our fighting forces from the homeland." Wayback machine confirms the group's roots online go as far back as 2008 when they wrote:
Brothers in the Military You know what it feels like not to be welcomed in a country that is a third world shit hole. You were probably called an "infidel". Call me an Infidel! That's what I am. Be proud of what you have done. We thank all our brothers that service this country.
The company which recruits the security contractors still has openings for the role. I don't think I am recruiting for a cause, though if anyone does go to Gaza I would be most interested in reading your experience.
I expect there are some number of selection effects which shape the pipeline for Gazan breadline security which could explain this. The compensation, as I understand, is competitive (~1000 USD/day) but not extraordinarily generous for a you may die, become a news story, or become a war criminal war zone. Even if salary was high enough to attract the most talented professionals, those who want a steady, high paying role might stick with relatively secure jobs on merchant shipping and corporate jobs at home or in the field. The more charity friendly contractors could already work for UN affiliated NGOs in more respectable organizations-- roles unassociated with a barrage of weekly accusations of massacres. The more mercenary, thrill seeking contractors looking to "Get some!" are perhaps more likely far away from a thousand prying media eyes in the middle of Africa. These are merely guesses.
The GHF adjacent (associated or blamed maybe) massacres are reported with some regularity. I personally remain agnostic to specific reports of "hundreds reported killed near aid distribution sites in Gaza." It is a callous position, but given so many interests do not care for the GHF, Israel, or America I have high confidence any damning videos will find little resistance surfacing. So far I am not aware of any that might suggest hundreds are being massacred while waiting for food. I extend the same courtesy to the GHF as well. One instance I recalled from this Summer was a report of Hamas members who allegedly "threw grenades" at GHF staff at a distribution site. Hamas militants perhaps did attack GHF (reportedly Palestinian in this instance) staff, or maybe journalists shared more accurate testimony. In this case that testimony built a picture of armed contractors throwing stun grenades to disperse a pugilistic crowd and 'aid seekers' throwing the stun grenades right back.
It would be nice to have journalists I could more-or-less trust with access to report on the ground, but we only have "Gen Z Republican influencers" invited by Israel. They don't buy a lot of purchase with me, although some are not wholly discredited.
BBC's reporting does succeed in persuading me to move a peg towards unprofessional shitshow on the Genocide Scale. Hiring members of a social club who idealize themselves as Christian warriors on a crusade would be low on my list. That is if I had the option to prioritize professionals able to run a tight ship in a contested war zone and controversial mission. If one did want to build a group to shoot civilians, or ignore cases of it, then ideological and righteous reasons to keep their mouths shut about crimes would be convenient. For whatever reason, the GHF hired up to a few 1095 enjoyers to carry out their mission whatever it may be. Unlike Ukraine, which I can see has great use for fanaticism in all forms, the GHF shouldn't share the same need. Chicano gangbangers exist in the US Army, but Chicano gangbangers don't make up 12% of its forces. I'm not saying that Crusader Kings enjoyers can't execute a clean charity mission, but...
When I wrote this, there was a brief press push around the story, but since then not much more.
- Why would the GHF choose to employ radicals?
- Does The Motte attract any private security who might guess better? Is it a buyers or sellers employment market for an organization that sets up shop in 3 months?
- Or, maybe this is not that big of a deal?
I could believe that the BBC would write this story no matter if their investigation found 100 or 1 contractors with "crusade" mentions. Reckoning with ones faith in a far and distant land is a thing. Finding people with the same experiences to form a social club is a thing. At best, there's a performative aspect that gets all the blame. These fellas volunteered for a charity mission, are getting paid for it, and the Pope has not issued a decree.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
2hr ago
It's not that I wanted to kill him, it's just unpredictable what a D Cell battery hurled at 60mph from section 127 will do to a human skull on impact.
hydroacetylene
2hr ago
I mean, the koch brothers switched to Hilary. Stranger things have happened.
Lonely_Varelse
2hr ago
I think it would be something like referring to the MAGA person as “cis.”
UwU
2hr ago
I'm not sure where our disagreement lies. If your point is that the two are not the same, it's true. In my first post I didn't say they were the same, in fact I pointed out that they were different.
If your point is that advocating for state violence is as mundane as paying for a watch like in the Monty Python skit, then I disagree. The takeaway for most is still that "my opposition deserves to die for their crimes" and it does endanger the target, just not as much as an unqualified call for violence.
Secondly, jake said:
Had Kirk agitated for and supported violence against his opposition -- actual violence, not the child's "you said mean words"
And you seem to agree that Kirk "literally [advocated] for violence"?
FirmWeird
Randomly Generated Reddit Username
2hr ago
Are all the Gazans also getting sentenced to death in the Hague for supporting their own genocidal government that commits war crimes in this fantasy of yours?
Have you been reading the thread or did you just come in midway because you got asked to moderate a post? This conversation was taking place in a hypothetical future where Israel is cut off from international trade and aid due to their genocide of the Palestinians - there wouldn't be any Gazans left to celebrate. We're discussing a worst case scenario, because my original point was that committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing is a terrible idea for Israel because it doesn't have the geography or natural resources in order to survive a future where it has lost the support of the US and other western allies.
For the record, my actual fantasy is that both sides put down the weapons and come together in peace after the people responsible for the crimes on both side are prosecuted (and no, children who were born after the last election are not responsible for the crimes of their government).
So your frothing genocide is still killing ~5 million people even assuming every European descendended jew is eligible.
Frothing genocide? I'm not proposing any kind of genocide at all - I'm saying that Israel would fall apart if it became a pariah state, which is very different. A pariah state cut off from the rest of the world and surrounded by people who violently hate them, with a population it cannot support with domestic agricultural output alone and a military it cannot maintain without access to international supply chains is not long for this world.
Moreover, as mentioned previously, a lot of the Israelis would simply just leave because grinding poverty in the desert is not a particularly tempting option when you have a passport that will take you to the first world - not to mention that unless you do become a refugee in this case you are overtly supporting a state that just committed ethnocide (which tends to put a dampener on people's sympathies for you).
What level of diversity do you expect to be present in the territory after you finish your retributive genocide?
Aside from clarifying that this would not actually be a retributive genocide, nor would I be able to take credit for it, who knows? It depends on how thoroughly the Israelis exterminated the Palestinians in this hypothetical future, and exactly what knocks the Israeli state out in the end. Ideally the Palestinian Christians, Muslims and Jews would be able to live together in peace.
Also, you seem remarkably hostile here - I'm not trying to score points, but it seems like you're getting unreasonably angry about this topic. Just to reiterate, this conversation is in the context of a future where Israel becomes a pariah state after committing horrific crimes against humanity. This isn't a conversation about whether Israel deserves to exist or the moral righteousness of the Zionist cause(though I'm sure you'd disagree with me there). The question is whether Israel can survive after being cut off from the rest of the world - and if you want to argue against that idea, you need to bring arguments like "They'd be able to source food from x because y, and they'd be able to get the rare earth metals required for their missiles from z" rather than just moral preening.
KMC
2hr ago
Jose Fernandez died drunk boating. Halladay was... flying a plane? Not sure what the jokes were for Roy, but for Fernandez it was the Miami/cocaine/party lifestyle catching someone famous.
For Halladay: The NTSB determined the probable cause of the crash to be the "pilot's improper decision to perform aggressive, low-altitude maneuvers due to his impairment from the use of multiple psychoactive substances, which resulted in a loss of control."
wow it was a 6-3 ruling and the 3 liberal justices joined 3 conservatives to argue the no plaintiffs thing
amazing
wait so can Kimmel sue and be a valid plaintiff and resolve this question in 4+ years?
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