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This is possibly better saved for a small questions Sunday, but can someone explain why is the federal government up-in-arms over Southwest's latest boondoggle to me?
I understand why Southwest is getting hammered by popular opinion and in the press. I wasn't personally affected but I know a few people who were (8 hour delays, last-minute cancellations, etc) and I understand their frustration. I absolutely understand customers demanding refunds on cancelled flights or compensation for excessive delays. This, to me, is the market reacting and correcting itself. Southwest failed to deliver what it promise and it is reaping the economic and PR whirlwind.
What I don't understand are promises from both the Secretary of Transportation and POTUS to "hold the airlines accountable", which just seems weird to me. Is there a regulatory or national security reason for the Feds, much less POTUS, to be weighing in on this? Is it a straight-forward consumer protection issue or is it just the straight populist look-we-are-doing-something-to-people-you-currently-hate kind of politics that I am currently reading it as? What am I not seeing/understanding here?
I take the general libertarian point that the government ought not interject itself into the types of contracts formed between customer and service provider, but that ship sailed (airplane departed?) decades ago in air travel.
If one accepts that DOT should set the terms of carriage contracts, it does seem inadequate to me that the only recourse for a canceled flight is the refund of the fare originally paid. Many airlines will instead attempt to place you on another carrier without additional charge, but they have no legal obligation to do so. If they do not, you are left stranded and scrambling to find a last-minute flight, which is usually much more expensive than booking in advance, and can create additional costs (last-minute hotel arrangements, etc.). I can see a counterargument when the cancellation was truly out of the airline's control (weather), but certainly not as here where the issue was an antiquated logistics database that catastrophically failed.
Stepping down a level of abstraction, I shudder to imagine being unexpectedly stranded an an airport with children during the holidays. If it were to happen because my airline wasn't capable of building a reliable flight crew assignment database, I'd be furious. When twenty thousand flights are canceled, that means 1-2 million families are right now having violent revenge fantasies about Southwest airline management. Politicians respond to that kind of anger.
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The Texas HSR project is stalled because negotiations between the landowners and the rail group stalled out, in large part because the two have been talking past each other. The specific issue is how many stops the rail line would have, with the rail group wanting three(Dallas-Houston-Madisonville) and the landowners wanting more than that(which might not be good for the railroad, but is probably good for the state as a whole) and the state government unwilling to intervene and create a compromise solution. It’s possible that the state government’s nonintervention is due to lobbying from southwest, but rural ranch owners are a politically powerful enough group in Texas to prevent the legislature from enacting compromises which don’t go their way.
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Air travel is the quintessence of interstate commerce, and the Constitution gives the federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce. It is literally the Feds' job to ensure that interstate commerce flows properly. Hence, it would be odd if they did not weigh in.
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Never let a good crisis go to waste. If you can posture as somebody who "cares" and "is doing something" and maybe "protects people from the excesses of the big business" - it may translate to some votes. And it just requires you to blow some hot air - which every politician is glad to do anytime they are not asleep anyway. There's no reason for this if you assume the goal is to make consumers better off. There are a lot of reasons if you assume the goal is to exploit the hype to enhance one's (and one's party) power.
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"Do not mess with the flying buses."
Air travel is extremely regulated at the federal level. Obviously some of this was post-9/11 self-preservation instinct, but I can't overstate how much of the whole process is scrutinized for even the most normal of operations.
I've got a friend who trained as an air traffic controller during college. It requires a good chunk of training, a series of aptitude tests, and then the federal government gets to choose where you're stationed. Then they make you retire from the field at 50 for safety reasons. Also, COVID-related hiring freezes basically reset the job market, because the government stopped processing applications and they all timed out.
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Airlines get tons of subsidies direct and indirect. The federal government provides grant money for air port construction, limits foreign competition (foreign airlines can't transport passengers between two American cities). The essential air service is direct subsidy to some airlines.
They also provided temporary subsidies during covid.
These subsidies are only rewarding travelers, not the shareholders of airlines. Take a look at the balance sheet of American Airlines for example.
https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/AAL/balance-sheet
Retained earnings are negative 9 billion and debt is 44 billion. It last filed for bankruptcy in 2011 and is likely to end up there again in the near future. This is not profiteering. This is the exact opposite of profiteering. It is shareholders getting repeatedly zeroed in order to keep airfare at artificially low prices.
I think airlines are just a bad business based on whatever competitive strategy framework you want to use like porters five forces. Government isn’t making them a worse business but I do agree subsidies probably flow to consumers.
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Taking them away from one airline would be pretty much a death sentence for that airline, they couldn't compete after that.
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I have limited insight into this: I had a former student who worked at Charles de Gaulle airport as maintenance crew, and he would explain to me the changing labour situation with respect to the airport. According to him the goal was to pare down staff to minimum required levels: anything to reduce costs was acceptable because they were in a highly liberalized market where consumers are very price-sensitive (for reasons unknown, customers discriminate by price much more heavily in air travel). That meant limiting crews, getting rid of redundancies, using third party, non-union contractors for every bit of unskilled labour, and generally running as light as possible personnel-wise. This meant that when you had those three or four days a year with bad snowstorms you got absolutely fucked and you have no one in reserve to handle the massive increase in work; but hey, that's a few days in the year and the other 360 customers get cheaper fares. People who get shafted are angry of course, but ultimately they don't interface with upper management and they forget soon anyways because hey, air travel is ridiculously cheap for what you're actually getting: unsurpassed convenience and safety for intercontinental travel.
My dad just got delayed 6 hours in Vancouver flying back (he was lucky: lots of people delayed multiple days). He couldn't fathom why every problem seemed to be someone else's responsibility (I tried to explain that job roles are heavily specialized to minimize the number of skilled labourers), why airport workers were so laid-back (it's no one's dream to load luggage, and they're not getting paid particularly well), and why in general the airport seemed entirely unused to this strange white substance falling from the sky (they know snow exists, it's just cheaper to not prepare for it).
Is your dad stupid? If not I don't think he had trouble fathoming that nobody dreamed they'd grow up to move luggage around or job specificity, I would bet he couldn't fathom why people put up with it. You know, assuming he wasn't just venting his frustration at spending a quarter of a day sitting around doing nothing with absolutely no chance of recompense.
He probably knows that these systems are heavily specialised to both minimise the number of skilled labourers and so nobody can be held responsible and everyone can pass the buck, increasing the effort required to complain and thus limiting the number of complaints received. He probably thinks it wasn't his dream to lay bricks or bag groceries or serve burgers either when he was younger, but he did it properly anyway because it was his fucking job.
He probably thinks it being cheaper not to prepare for snow is a mind blowingly idiotic excuse for all the employees in a major transportation hub to pretend they've never seen snow and they don't know how to react to it. He probably suspects that their wide eyed bewilderment at this mysterious frozen substance is part of the same problem as the lack of accountability and laziness - we always get the minimum amount of customer service we are on average willing to tolerate, and people with no self respect will tolerate anything.
He might even think that anyone who considers those justifications legitimate is part of the problem, giving the airport workers a pass because they hope others give them a pass for doing a bad job.
An alternative explanation is that he might just have checked out mentally. My father has done that on all except a few subject matters. It's not that he can't understand, it's just that he can't be bothered and therefore choose to believe what is comfortable to him unless significantly pressed.
I feel like a lot of retired or older people do this, and those who don't often seem miserable.
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What else is there? OK, there's of course loyalty programs, but you have to fly quite a lot for them to be of any serious benefit - to the tune that you have to either be rich or fly not on your own dime (e.g. work travel) to get benefits that are worth serious consideration. The basic service - i.e. the economy class - is pretty much the same everywhere. You get the same 2 inches to the next seat and same water-and-salted-mini-pretzels. You can't pay extra to not have your flight cancelled or to have less turbulence or anything else both affordable for a middle-class person and important. So, what else beyond price is there? For me that would be:
Convenience. I'd pay extra for non-stop vs stop flight - but lines probably can't easily change that.
Convenience 2 - I'd pay some extra for convenient time (not departing at 7 am or arriving at midnight) but less than for extra stop. Also probably hard for a company to make it optimal everywhere.
Overall cost - i.e. if I can save on bags charges, or fly to an airport for which the next leg of the journey would be cheaper, or have some other benefit like that, I may agree to get a pricier ticket if the difference is less than the benefit
That's about it. If I am not paying for it - e.g. work travel - I'd of course optimize for my own convenience and for whose miles would work better for me, but that's another story.
BTW, I usually do not downgrade my opinion about the airline because of one-off delays. Shit happens. If the company manages it reasonably (as a minimum - get me a hotel and a couple of meal vouchers if you delay me substantially, and have the staff handle it without panicking themselves and making me panic) - I'll write it off as such and move on. If it keeps happening then I'll likely start paying extra to avoid such an airline - but so far I don't think Southwest is worse than anybody else in this regard.
There certainly is some evidence that Southwest is an outlier: "More than 90% of Wednesday’s US flight cancellations were Southwest flights, according to flight tracking website FlightAware.". And "As of Wednesday, Southwest Airlines had canceled 58% of its flights scheduled for Thursday" whereas "By contrast, as of Wednesday afternoon, United Airlines had canceled just 11 flights scheduled for the day; while American Airlines had canceled 23, FlightAware said. Each figure accounted for less than 1% of the respective company's total flights.".
Yeah I get that there's a particular set of circumstances which broke SW model in ways that it wouldn't break models for other companies. The question is, how often this particular set of circumstances is likely to re-occur? If it's once-per-20-years, I won't likely pay much premium to not fly SW. If it's "every other year" then I'd be more cautious. If it's "likely to happen every time there's a storm", then I'd only fly SW if it gives deep discount and I am not particularly upset if the flight gets cancelled. But the latter does not seem to be the case - there were many storms before, and SW did not break in this fashion.
I am certainly not encouraging you to stop flying Southwest. But it is certainly a problem: It is very difficult to know how much more likely SW is to have a delay than other carriers, and hence it is very difficult to know how much of a discount you should demand. It might well be effectively zero.
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Yeah this isn't really weather related, Southwest's solver/optimizer broke with the added constraints and they have to solve a gigantic travelling salesman problem with a lot more manual work now.
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This is one of the ways in which airlines obfuscate things.
Pretty much every delay is a one-off in the sense that the airline relies on the delay only happening under unusual circumstances. But airline management and policies can make delays more or less likely--yet each delay will still be a one-off in that sense. The bad policies just change the frequency of one-offs. And you won't observe that frequency unless you take a number of flights on the same airline that is much larger than what a typical consumer does.
Yes, but even though each case is unique, there's not much new in general that happens in this area - people try to get from A to B, weather intervenes, staff gets sick, holidays come and go, etc. - there are some patterns that are going to eventually emerge. If every other time I fly particular airline I get some trouble, I'll start avoiding it. But so far I didn't notice such pattern with SW, is there one?
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Consumers discriminate by price heavily in air travel because it's extremely hard to compare anything except price on more than a crude level. And a lot of that is because the airlines themselves have tried to deliberately obfuscate anything that you could compare airlines on.
Also, the government has regulated away some things that airlines could otherwise compete on. You can't get an airline without a TSA check.
The TSA is a jobs program. It's not going to go anywhere.
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One reason why price is currently the main thing is probably just that, well, if I'm booking a flight I'm going to do it by going to Skyscanner or some equivalent website, entering the flight dates and then picking the cheapest fight that doesn't have a punitive stopover schedule. I suspect that's the usual route for most others, too. If some other instance is paying the cost wholly or in part I might patriotically check if our national airline is flying that route at a suitable time, but that's about it - even then, if that's not the case, I'll revert to basic Skyscanner process for simplicity.
I'm not sure that any amount of deregulation might essentially change the basic process introduced to the game by online cheap flight search engines.
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It's a shame too. I'd gladly pay extra - even a good bit extra - to an airline that eschews security theater. I'm quite tired of having my junk felt up every time I fly.
You can't eliminate security theatre but you can pay for TSA pre-check reduce the theatre to almost pre-9/11 levels (you go through a metal detector rather than a mm-wave scanner). But this isn't airline-dependent.
Yeah, I don't want to pay for it because it seems to me to be a pure scam. If the TSA can "ensure safety" (not that they do in the first place) without all the process at the airport, then they should do that for everyone without charging a stupid fee. I did recently get a credit card which pays for it as one of their perks. So I will spring for it now because it's not costing me anything that I'm not already paying. But previously I wasn't about to pay the TSA for their racket.
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You must be using some weird airports if your junk gets felt up at all. And, if it is, then that is not security theater: They have evidence indicating that you, specifically, might have an gun, knife, or other dangerous item. A far cry from making everyone throw away shampoo bottles.
Yes, when I get felt up by the TSA it's because I have some anomaly on the scanner. I don't know why, because my pockets are always completely empty, I try to make sure my clothes aren't loose, etc. But it's still security theater because the process itself is sheer theater. They are taking ineffectual steps against a nonexistent threat simply to make people feel better that somebody is doing something.
Why do you assume that because, in your specific case, they have never yet found anything, that therefore every anomaly on the scanner also is a false positive?
Also, would you have them ignore anomalies? That would be a great way to tell actual terrorists how to avoid detection; just wrap that knife in such a way that it appears to be a mere anomaly. The fact is, a system that is highly sensitive and generates lots of false positives is very effective at reducing attacks, and hence is not "security theater" at all. It might be suboptimal, depending on how much one weighs the value of avoiding actual attacks against the value of not being frisked, and it even might rise to the level of a civil liberties violation, but it is not "security theater."
You're assuming that a) there is an actual threat to defend against, and b) the measures taken by the TSA are effective. I don't believe either is true.
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Alternately, he could have a tan and a beard.
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No, he just has to be opting out of the porno-scanner, which is still security theater.
And, were the old-style
x-ray machineswalk through metal detectors also security theater, given that hijackings plummeted when they were mandated in 1973? A lot of people here seem to rather lazily use "security theater" as a synonym for "TSA regulation I don't like."Are you by any chance deliberately conflating scanning your body with x-raying your luggage?
Anyway the answer is yes. As 9/11 showed, an airplane can be hijacked with boxcutters. Even now you can easily get weapons of similar lethality, simply after crossing the security check, meaning anything that is currently happening at the airports is nothing but a ritual. If hijacking fell, the best argument that you can make is that rituals work, not that what the TSA is doing is an actual security enhancement against a motivated actor.
Huh? No, I am talking about walk-through metal detectors.
As for the boxcutters, are you not aware that they were used because they were perfectly legal to bring on planes at the time? Is the regulation that now bans them also "secutity theater"?
And, tell me, why did the "underwear bomber" have to use some half-assed method instead of one which, you know, was more likely to work? Could it be because "security theater" prevented him from doing so?
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You could replace junk-felt-up with "getting a year's worth of radiation each way" via these scanners and it's the same thing.
We shouldn't have to be in pre-check to avoid these two options.
So, OP claims that he'd "gladly pay extra" to avoid getting his junk groped, but you think he is not willing to pay for TSA Precheck, which is $78 for five years?
I didn't do it for years because I considered it a violation of principle and privacy. Signing myself up for a centralized watch list, fingerprints, and all that shit is something anyone concerned about privacy shouldn't do.
Then one day I realized I'd already done that for my conceal carry permit and pussied out. I have to say that precheck has been quite the game changer in terms of not wanting to put a shotgun in my mouth after visiting the airport.
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As a matter of fact I'm not. I think it's a sheer scam that the TSA claims to need these security measures, but oh if you pay us money we don't need them. I recently got a credit card that pays for it as a perk, so I'll sign up at some point because of that. But otherwise? Fuck that noise.
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People are generally reluctant to pay X to alleviate problems that are caused by unwanted interference by X in the first place. It creates bad incentives and amounts to giving in to blackmail.
It's the government's main business model, though. "Pay us taxes for protection. Protection from our people taking all your stuff and throwing you in a cell to be raped for the rest of your life, that is".
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These days it seems like first class is mostly a way to reward loyalty with incentive upgrades.
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Sure: elected leaders like to sound responsive to the needs of their voters. Many voters are (rightfully) upset at their flight cancellations and disrupted travel plans. It's not crazy that they would pipe up and try to claim they're working on the problem even if it were just informally calling the airlines and doing various things behind the scenes to ease the disruption: waive a few minor regulations here or there, make a few calls to ensure the federal employees running control towers are operating smoothly. There are also any number of actual existing regulations that might be useful in a punitive fashion to encourage speedy resolution, discourage future repeats of this trouble, and potential new regulation that may be considered.
I don't know that I expect them to do anything effective, but it's possible.
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You are not missing anything. It's political grandstanding.
What's particularly galling is that the airlines are, if anything, suffering from excess competition. U.S. airline companies have, in aggregate, made negative profits since the inception of the industry. Thanks to generous capitalist donors, er investors, U.S. consumers enjoy safe, mostly reliable flights for less than the cost needed to sustain the industry long term. Looking at the balance sheets of major companies, I expect a wave of bankruptcies in the next recession. They were only able to sustain themselves during Covid by taking on massive loans.
People actually cashing in three years worth of frequent flyer miles all at once is gonna be really painful for the airlines that used them to borrow money against themselves during Covid.
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The intertwinement of governments and airlines seems both necessary and permanent, given the needs for coordination across flight paths, airports, and security. As a result, the government can be expected to take a fairly active interest in determining what sorts of airline policies are acceptable, given that they're also providing airlines a sort of protection against standard competition. Unlike my local pizza shop inviting competition if they don't treat their customers well, it's pretty hard for anyone to say, "boy, this airline sucks at providing service from City A to City B, so I think I'll start my own airline".
I think your read of Biden and Buttigieg is correct in that they're offering little other than a sort of populist scolding of the unpopular thing, but I don't think that's particularly out of bounds for something that really does impact quite a few people.
For me, I'm going to just mentally file it away as Incident #91238 for why I'm a Delta loyalist. Every other American airline just absolutely sucks compared to Delta.
Airlines are a very competitive industry. That's why they constantly go bankrupt.
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My impression is airlines are pretty heavily regulated at the federal level (for obvious interstate commerce reasons) and that there is also a lot of consumer protection regulation at the federal level. I don't see why the consumer protection angle is insufficient. The articles don't go into too much detail about what the accountability is supposed to look like but what is mentioned (refunds for customers) or hinted at (perhaps increased regulation) seem like straightforward consumer protection stuff.
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I think it’s important because airlines are so heavily regulated that the rules which govern passenger compensation in the event of a cancellation are written by the bureaucracy. A few days ago southwest was trying to blame all of the cancellations on the weather which under the current rules would have allowed them to avoid paying for the hotels/rental cars etc. that they may be liable for.
While they can’t retroactively enforce these rules on southwest they can credibly threaten to impose more passenger friendly rules in an attempt to get southwest to behave better now.
Aha, this seems to be the context that I was missing.
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Airlines and the fed. govt. have always been intertwined, so it's not that surprising. Look at all the airline bailouts over the years, or concerns over safety.
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I think it's just grandstanding, what you're calling "straight populist look-we-are-doing-something-to-people-you-currently-hate kind of politics".
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