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Notes -
Current leading headline on Drudge Report-
MUSK: JEWS GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE
Links to a tweet by Matt Yglesias, who happens to be Jewish. Yglesias in turn is quoting Musk, who in turn is quoting some Twitter rando (I think) saying that Jewish communities have pushed for the same sort of hatred against whites that they oppose when it's against Jews, and so he doesn't care when they come to the shocking discovery that many of the immigrants they support flooding the country with discover that these immigrants are antisemitic. Musk simply says that the rando speaks the truth.
Here's the actual Musk tweet: https://nitter.cz/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299#m
So, uh, how did Yglesias's clearly uncharitable interpretation of things get blasted to the top of the most popular conservative leaning news aggregator? It feels like the Gina Carano situation all over again.
This, combined with Nikki Haley's recent bizarre "Israel doesn't need the US, we need them" nonsense makes me think the GOP is trying to make some sort of push regarding foreign policy towards Israel. Or maybe it really is all one big conspiracy lol?
Edit: Also to pre-empt any claims of antisemitism on my part, if Israel decided to turn Gaza into a parking lot tomorrow my reaction would be somewhere along the lines of "Eh, that's unfortunate."
I mean the first tweet in the thread was
And elon replied to a response.
It's not that uncharitable.
But when you look at other tweets by the guy who Elon agreed with, he's very explicit that he thinks antisemitism is bad, and is just criticizing a specific trend in jewish activism.
I think it's more Elon just having the kind incoherent idiosyncratic political opinions that normal people have than being coherently a cryptonazi. Later in the day he approvingly replied to a tweet about how racism is always bad no matter what.
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I disagree that Drudge is conservative. He is primarily motivated by money/clicks. There is a study that I'm not going to find right now that showed that Drudge is very centrist. He just seems conservative because he comes from an era where there wasn't even Fox News as a counterweight, and he was actually willing to blow the whistle on the Lewinsky scandal when all the other MSM outlets were willing to bury it.
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It's really crazy how much the discourse is shifting. Tucker Carlson now directly calling out Jewish mega-donors for facilitating "White Genocide" (his words) in contrast with their pearl-clutching over campus opposition to Israel. Even some left-wing commentators like Kyle Kalinski are Noticing at levels never seen in our lifetimes.
There's a Civil War at the Daily Wire, with Candace Owens delivering a scathing endorsement of Nikki Haley as "president of Isreal" and Ben Shapiro responding with bridge-burning insults. Nikki Haley, for her part, has said she would respond to the rise in Anti-Semitism by de-anonymizing social media, for "National Security". With Nikki Haley's own campaign channel considering this clip from the Republican debate to be worthy of actually posting on the channel, Owens isn't far off.
This all does make me concerned for a Nikki Haley surge, although Trump isn't less pro-Israel than Haley, and Biden has proven to be sufficiently pliable and his administration isn't exactly composed of people who are going to threaten American loyalty to Israel regardless of anything Israel chooses to do.
I suppose that depends on your lifetime but the sentiments you cite were completely normal on the Pat Buchanan right and anti war left in the 90s. People really imagine that antisemitism ceased to exist in American public life between 1945 and today when in reality it faded relatively slowly and was relatively common in spaces on the hard left and right throughout.
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I've never liked the term "white genocide." The word genocide itself is just a word that gets to be claimed by the victor, as the definition is broad enough to be applied to nearly every conflict...
Destroying a group "in whole or part" is just up to the interpretation of the victor. So if you have no power, like white nationalists, claiming you are being genocided is just going to be dismissed and valid complaints about i.e. demographic replacement are discredited.
In the past I've described antisemitism as anti-fragile. So let's say Jews are going to respond to antisemitism. What are they going to do that isn't going to further and visibly validate the arguments made by antisemites? Pushing for greater authoritarianism in the public discourse is their only strategy, and it's becoming less effective quite rapidly.
On the other hand, I think this rhetoric is going to have a real deterrent effect on Jews. You are going to be less likely to see people like Jon Stewart say things like "Jews and blacks should gang up on whitey." Even the ADL is relatively mum recently despite Musk now overtly endorsing DR rhetoric, likely due to the negative PR campaign started by Keith Woods.
Some of their efforts are going to be put towards rolling back DEI and fixing the homogeneity of news media after the way this has been reported. A lot of heavy-handed rhetoric is being thrown around but there's still the question of what can realistically be done which will define how things shake out in the end.
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Indeed, there is nothing they can possibly do that would bring antisemites to change their position. There's another word for that sort of belief: unfalsifiable. Any action 'the jews' take that isn't obviously in line with the antisemite view is just evidence of ever more complex trickery. And so it is found that both 'pushing for greater authoritarianism' and 'staying mum' all leads to the same rotten conclusion.
No there isn't. You're conflating two different ideas and making your thinking on this matter less clear. Antisemitic beliefs are entirely falsifiable, but that has no bearing on whether people are willing to change their mind on that matter or not. As an example, I love my family members and would never sacrifice my mother to save some random financial criminal. I'm not changing my mind on this matter, but the belief is very clearly falsifiable and testable.
Are those the only two possible answers? You've presented two options that won't work, and that's it? I agree with you that both of those options are bad and won't work, but I don't think that's a good spot to just stop thinking. There are a lot of other actions the jews could take, and a lot of them wouldn't actually lead to that same rotten conclusion.
The way SS presents his antisemitism, it’s both intellectually robust somehow (‘anti-fragile’) and dependent on the behaviour of jews. But we’ve established that it’s neither of those things.
I think you’re conflating yourself, namely, the predictor and the subject of the prediction. “Luke says Mark would never sell his mother”. Luke is supposed to change his mind if mark sells his mother. SS says, if jews do X, it will “visibly validate the arguments made by antisemites “. SS is supposed to change his mind if they don’t do X. There is no way to validate or invalidate his argument if it just consists of his personal hatred of jews (or love of mother).
That isn't what "anti-fragile" means - anti-fragile here effectively means that efforts to suppress antisemitism will have a paradoxical effect and actually bolster it. You also haven't actually demonstrated that it isn't dependent on the behavior of jews - or at least not in any of the posts I've seen.
In this particular case, he's claiming that if the jews decide to use their power over discourse to make sure that antisemitic speech is suppressed and the people who hold those ideas are driven out of society, that actually strengthens the argument "jews have control over societal discourse and use this for their advantage". He's straightforwardly correct here too - simply getting the government to ban criticism of jews isn't actually going to make people start liking them, and would most likely generate additional animus. The claim that some particular group has too much influence over societal discourse actually does get stronger when that particular group uses their influence over societal discourse to suppress criticism of said influence, and it isn't really hard to see why. Note however that there's no requirement for fragility/antifragility to match up to whether or not something is intellectually robust - this effect would take place whether jews did actually have a disproportionate amount of influence over societal discourse or not.
But he has admitted that there would be things they could do to change his mind, he just thinks they aren't going to do them. You're correct when you say that there's no way to validate or invalidate his argument if it just consists of "I hate jews", but you haven't actually managed to convince me that that's his entire argument.
Furthermore, you're presenting an utterly false dilemma. SS is talking about how this particular strategy would actually bolster antisemitism, but that not adopting this strategy would also have negative impacts. Doing nothing or attempting a larger societal crackdown on this kind of speech would confirm his pre-existing beliefs, but those aren't the only options on the table. If the Israeli government came out and made an announcement that the recent surge in support for Palestine among people of colour means that encouraging white nationalism in the USA and Europe was better for their goals and long-term survival, and then took action to use their massive influence operation (AIPAC etc) to further the cause of white nationalism, I'd consider his argument totally falsified. Similarly, if there was a serious repression effort that actually worked and didn't engender a hostile reaction his argument would be proven wrong as well.
The grand irony is, though, that if ‘authoritarian’ actions by Jewish elites were actually enough to eliminate antisemitism, the entire dissident right argument itself doesn’t work since almost definitionally they wouldn’t exist. The whole thesis is that powerful Jews eliminated white identity between 1945 and the present or whatever, which would either suggest that this plan does work, or that it wasn’t the plan.
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What would prove antisemites wrong would be for Jews to systematically exert their talents and influence for the interests of white people. Basically, for them to treat white people as they treat their own in-group, or even putting white people above their own in-group in political and cultural conflict. That's not going to happen, and I don't even necessarily blame them for it, it's just something that has to be accepted.
Look at 2rafa who has said that we can't support a White identity because it might be threatening to Jews. Accepting this premise is true, yes it is very difficult for Antisemites to be proven wrong with the remaining options for how Jews should respond to Antisemitism given that, you know, "be on the side of white identity" isn't an option.
So their failure to meet your hypocritical, admittedly impossible demands apparently constitutes a validation of your worldview. Try again for the falsifiable prediction.
Unless they agree to serve your interests above all others, they’re nefarious. I don’t even treat my own brother this way. I guess your philosophy boils down to egoistic militarism, which denies the converging of interests, where every man is in a death struggle against all the others. If there can be no convergence of interests with jews, I don't see why there should be with my brother, and all the less so with the very very very extended family which constitutes my race. And at this point, I'm related to jews as well, it's just one more 'very'.
If it's impossible for Jews to treat non-Jewish white people with the same interest that they treat Jews, then how is that not an admission of the underlying conflict and problem?
You said above or equal. I think you would agree it's impossible to treat a child on the other side of the world better or the same as your own child. Proximity matters. People, here jews, having a preference for their interests, their family, their race, their football teams, does not result in unavoidable conflict.
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They did for the vast majority of the existence of the United States, and that radically changed along with the change in elite composition and saliency of prevailing Grand Narratives, specifically around WWII and later the Holocaust. White identity has been made taboo by these grand narratives formulated by our cultural institutions. If you ask the average person why advocating for White people is the most evil thing in the world, they will surely respond "What do you mean, haven't you seen Schindler's List?!"
The post-WWII and Holocaust narrative has formulated an anti-fascist dialectic on both the left and right. The left is anti-fascist because of their social liberalism, and the right is anti-fascist because of their economic libertarianism. But they all agree Hitler is the anti-Christ of this post-war moral Universe. This is the cultural context in which white people have turned against their own self-interests.
I could turn this around and ask why Jews haven't allowed their mind to be changed about supporting White identity given all of the benefits and friendly relations they have enjoyed from the West since the end of the Second World War.
To this day, Jews will go and wail like toddlers at a freakin' wall to constantly relive a thousands-year old offense, and they won't allow a single shred of advocacy for White people without invoking the Holocaust and "Never Again" to explain why it's beyond-the-pale. Anybody who wants to advocate for white people or White identity is absolutely correct that Jewish influence in cultural and political life is the most significant barrier to accomplishing this. Unless that changes, which it won't, it's misdirected to say that the Cart is driving the Horse, or claim that Dissident Right twitter is the reason Jewish influence is so hostile towards white identiy.
King Charles' very first speech featured a promise to construct the new Holocaust Temple in the gardens in plain view of parliament. That way, any lawmakers or citizens walking by the center of political power cannot do so without being reminded of Jewish suffering. There's just not much room to doubt the source of these cultural narratives that have inspired bitter hostility towards white identity.
No, the average person will say ‘huh? Whites don’t need the help. You some kind of racist?’
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Mass immigration was radically altering American demographics in a way the Founding Fathers never intended as early as the mid-19th century. In that case of course it was famously a Jew who was perhaps the nation’s staunchest restrictionist. Hart-Cellar was in substantial part a Catholic project.
But again, it doesn’t really matter. You think that white people suddenly turned “against their own interests” because of Jewish mythmaking about World War 2 and the Holocaust narrative specifically, ie the KMac / ‘racist lib’ narrative. But widespread education and cultural messaging about the Holocaust began in earnest in the 1980s, well after the loosening of immigration laws in the US and well after mass immigration from the Islamic world had begun into Westen Europe from Pakistan, North Africa and elsewhere. And the movements that led to gay rights, women’s equality laws, the civil rights act, the sexual revolution and so on had a long ideological tail that stretched well back through the 19th century, they weren’t invented wholecloth by Jewish (or any) boomers.
The biggest obstacle to wignat advocacy is other gentile whites - over a hundred million of them - opposed to that ideology rather than several million Jews. Those gentiles practice an ideology that is clearly, demonstrably and directly descended from the principles of universality, rights, democracy, individualism and so on upon which the USA was founded and which was, ultimately, invented by their own kind. I don’t think this is a tenuous link at all.
But it’s always easier for ethnats to be angry at another people than their own.
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The gentile left and hard right may be critical of Israel, but they disagree on everything else (including mass immigration) so imagining them somehow teaming up specifically to oppose Jews seems unlikely.
Alternatively, left wing anti-Zionist Jews will continue to have leftist DEI views on race, and conservative Jews will continue not to say “we should team up with black people against whitey”, those in the middle will pick a side, but wignats will continue to pick the extremes from both sides and claim they’re the same people.
It’s mostly for boomer centrist Jews like my Uncle who now speak down “White people” whenever they can because that’s the zeitgeist but certainly weren’t speaking like that 20 years ago.
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I don't think they will team up. I think the gentile left will decline and the hard right will grow. And I don't think the progressive left will just become moderates either. I think those people likely have personality characteristics that make them affine to ostensibly radical causes, basically a latent Religious impulse. It is said that former Communists made far more loyal members of the Nazi party than conservatives.
Source? Would love to read about that.
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Genocide might be overplaying their hand... for now. But anti-white pogroms are a hill I will, and have, died on.
Still, it's impossible to overlook the work of the Jewish academic class in the role of pushing anti-white blood libel in their privilege discourse. And I say blood libel, because the sorts of anti-white rhetoric that gets pushed, often by Jewish intellectuals, would land anyone on the ADL's hate list if the same were said about jews. This despite the things they claim about whites often being objectively and measurably more true of jews than of whites. Like the disproportionate educational outcomes, wealth outcomes, and over representation in positions of power.
It's impossible to overlook the Jewish entertainer class that does the rounds accusing all immigration restrictionist of being Nazis, since they get to monopolize integrating Nazi imagery into their routines much the same way Blacks get to monopolize the n-word in theirs.
It's impossible to overlook how the Jewish political class, most notably the ADL, attacks anyone who doesn't want to flood this country with immigrants who hate America. I mean christ, there were very brown rallies in every major city in the US and Europe calling for the death of all Jews, and they tweeted about fucking white supremacist. They never miss a chance to blood libel my people.
I can't possibly be made to care anymore. Jews are being attacked on college campuses? So? That's been the status quo for my people for going on 15 years now. Where was their great concern for white conservatives every time there were paroxysms of violence at a cancelled speaking event? Shit, where was their great concern over even recent violent riots over, only because it's top of mind, someone like Riley Gaines speaking on a campus?
None of them have recanted even slightly that white people aren't getting what they deserve. They just don't believe it should be visited on them.
In what sense did you die on that hill? I mean, unless you're a ghost we can presumably discount the literal, but it's not like you said "literally died" so I won't insist on that. Banned from an internet forum? Fired from a job? Lost friends? Disowned by family?
Not particularly doubting your claim to have suffered for it in some sense - seems plausible enough - just trying to ascertain what sense that is.
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The same is true if it were said about blacks or Asians. This is just anti-white prejudice that elite Jews bought into because it was fashionable and they thought it didn’t apply to them- it mostly originated in the black community and got systematized through pretending AADOS conspiracy theory folkways have anything more to tell us than uncle Billy’s thanksgiving table rants and is mostly not intended to be philosemitic. A lot of it is rooted in negrolatry, sure, but it’s not a Jewish thing specifically.
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I understand not caring about Israel either way, but expecting all Jews (since obviously individually conservative and reactionary Jews are hardly uncommon and indeed even grossly overrepresented among prominent figures on the dissident right) to renounce progressive ideas when they’re also shared by tens of millions of PMC and elite gentiles whom you don’t also denounce is strange. Like SS, you’re demanding Jews en masse be more reactionary than most gentile Americans of their class.
I don't think so. I think at a bare minimum I'm asking the Jews actively asking for my political support to stop marginalizing me politically.
The context is a massive rise in hostility towards Jews on campus. It's being performed using the exact same apparatus that Jews were accomplices in against my people. They are asking for my help, while still not even admitting the use of that apparatus against me is wrong.
No.
Are these fashionable luxury beliefs held by a wide brown coalition and "good whites"? Sure. And when the "good whites" come begging for help, or whichever group gets targeted next, I'll say the same to them. Well, rhetorically. I don't think it matters one bit what I say, or how I feel, beyond venting my spleen on an internet forum.
But all that is still hypothetical. In this context, at this time, the hypocrisy of academic Jews, or Jews pulling their donations from colleges, and acting all surprised and horrified that anything like this could possibly be happening, despite it happening to my people for going on 10 years, is rich. It's really fucking rich. Especially when they aren't even willing to dismantle the apparatus that targeted me first, and then them. They merely want it to go back to focusing on me.
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I mean you can make a long list of conservative black people, but that doesn't change that fact that ~90% reliably vote Democrat. But just because 10% don't vote Democrat doesn't make it unfair to say "the black community supports the Democratic Party." I don't have stats on what percentage of Jews in the US support anti-white rhetoric but if an overwhelming percentage supported anti-white rhetoric and practices then it would be completely reasonable to say that the "Jewish community" supports such things
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Then you must have only read 1/3rd of my post.
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In my experience, when you Notice you don't un-Notice just because you see something cringe from a nazi loser.
I don't think that's true, I think this forum is mostly committed to an HBD interpretation as IQ explaining disparate outcomes and elite composition without Noticing an underlying ethnic conflict between Jews and gentiles. @2rafa for example will rely on HBD and IQ to explain elite composition, but then when it comes to explaining the actual cultural and political output of that elite, then that is fully explained by 18th century liberalism without regard to the identity, or HBD-characteristics, of that elite.
But it's getting harder and harder for 2rafa to rely on 18th century liberalism to explain the behavior of Zionists in American political and cultural life.
It is indeed likely that personality traits are also inherited and that their distribution varies by population. But this process and the differences specifically are vastly less understood than population IQ differences, especially beyond things like time preference that can be measured relatively empirically.
And it’s unlikely that hypothetical Ashkenazi Jewish characteristics or preferences are responsible for liberalism, sexual modernity, LGBT cultural movements and so on, when that population lived (and a substantial proportion still live) in a very traditional and conservative culture in both the diaspora and homeland for centuries.
The alternate explanation, that liberal Christian and post-Christian modernity was excellent and heading in a highly encouraging and very nice and trad direction until a few million Jews successfully and single-handedly conned two thirds of a billion whites into embracing degenerate progressivism, opening the borders to mass immigration, and giving all their tax money to Israel is vastly more believable, of course.
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They way I see it - if you were a jewish person with SJW opinions you don't have a right to complain about the lack of lube on the dildo of consequences that the people you supported and allied yourself with are inserting right now in your asshole.
And from the context it is obvious that he was talking about the jews in what nate silver defined as the indigo blob. Not the citizens of Israel or the Hassidic ultraorthodox jews.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/twitter-elon-and-the-indigo-blob
Aka - he was talking about the Jon Stewarts and Sarah Silvermans and other jews that pearl clutched when the Trump muslim ban was implemented for that glorious 24 hours. if you ever supported people against the white cis heteropatriarchy that actually was true believer in the never again after WWII - don't act surprised from the predictable results.
This is essentially how I feel.
I'd rather have Israel than an Arabic region, since I think the latter wouldn't really be especially productive, whilst the former's been able to provide a bastion of a culture that's somewhat similar to mine and be economically productive. I also feel that the ADL has provided a lot of the blueprint for the modern anticolonial woke movement, and that it is very funny that suddenly the Zionist diaspora is getting hoisted by the petard that they've been condemning the rest of the West for.
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Maybe the jewish community should take a moment to ask themselves why so many people are so hostile to them without using elementary-school level excuses like "they hate us 'cause they ain't us". Personally, if I found that people on the motte were constantly accusing me of making shithouse posts despite me believing that my posts were actually excellent high-quality contributions, I'd take that as a sign that maybe I should reconsider my self-evaluation.
Many Jewish intellectuals have engaged with antisemitism in vastly more depth than “they hate us ‘cause they ain't us”, among them Herzl, Freud, Marx etc. Disagree with their theories by all means (Freud’s, as I recall, was that the arrogance of considering themselves chosen was the cause, along with some castration phobia circumcision thing), but they do exist.
I'm not claiming that those people don't exist - I'm making a comment based on my experiences with jews on the internet and in person. I've got no doubt that there's a lot of sophisticated thought among certain circles, I just haven't really seen it in my conversations with jews on other parts of the internet. I almost definitely disagree with Freud, but I haven't gotten around to Herzl or Marx's work on antisemitism yet - I'll add them to the reading list.
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The assumption that they don't take a moment is itself elementary-school level.
I'm talking mostly about the people that I see on social media and in real life, and that's not an assumption - I'm talking about direct experience. There are absolutely thoughtful jews who think about this seriously, but I don't think a statement like "men are taller than women" needs an army of qualifiers despite the fact that there are 4 foot tall men and 7 foot tall women.
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There’s a very curvy line from 4chan to the Twitter “alt right” to the richest man in the world’s ideology. Which is either going to be called frightening or inspiring depending on who is asked.
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The richest and most (2nd most? Trump?) famous man on the planet just publicly agreed 'the actual truth' was Jews don't deserve your sympathy right now because they've been too busy pushing hate and diversity against white people. He agrees that Jews have an agenda, that it's anti-white diversity, and that that's a bad thing. It's the whole JQ all-in-one.
My guess is everybody pretends it didn't happen because what the actual fuck is anyone supposed to do about it.
I don’t see this in the linked tweet? The thing Musk is replying to seems to have been made private.
So did Musk himself if you look at his replies page shortly after that tweet.
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He has a quick follow up where it seems he is pretty clearly talking about ADL Jews and their fellow travelers; not Jews writ large.
He then makes a boomercon claim of “can’t we just stop all racism”.
Optically perhaps but who knows. The flip side is that the ADL has specifically been attacking Elon and Elon’s company so he has special animosity towards ADL. I find it likely Elon doesn’t hate Jews but does hate ADL. Given that, I’m fine giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Elon obviously doesn't hate anyone he's just a kid who likes fast cars and rocket ships. But 48 hours ago anyone on the planet who even said the word 'Jews' out loud would at best be considered a bit uncouth. He should not have interacted with that tweet if he didn't want to open up pandora's box.
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If he didn't mean all Jews, what else is he supposed to say? Lie and say he did mean all Jews?
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How is Yglesias being uncharitable? A: Say why Hitler was right. B: OK. This us why. Musk: Truth.
Seems direct to me.
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this pearl clutching by the ADL is the worst. it turns off almost everyone and frames them as being the victims, when they are not. disagreement about foreign policy is not hate speech.
like 2003 again. the possibility of deployment cannot be ruled out if things get worse.
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I agree with Musk when it comes to the ADL specifically, but it seems unfair to blame "Jewish communities" more broadly.
I agree, but it does go well beyond the ADL. Nearly every prominent Jewish academic, entertainer, or magnate has voiced similar views.
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Yeah, it's not like Ben Shapiro and other conservative Jews are criticizing white people or advocating for non-white immigration.
Is this sarcastic? I was under the impression that Ben Shapiro did actually do that - he had an entire spat with the alt righters previously due to how he supports ethnonationalism for himself but decries it as evil among others.
Ben Shapiro’s views are the mainstream of the GOP on immigration and Israel. He’s a standard Fox News conservative, just Jewish.
I'm assuming neocon then.
Essentially illegal immigration bad, deport illegals, legal immigration fine.
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Aside from his "ethnonationalism for me but not for thee", I think he was also a basic bitch chamber of commerce style "we need immigration to stimulate the economy" Republican until the particular street he lived on in CA got inhospitable. Then he finally realized the evils of unchecked illegal immigration that people who don't live on the combined income of a lawyer and a doctors have to endure.
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I do not think there is any hidden agenda here. The Republican party, both the elite and the base, have a profound emotional attachment to Israel. So do Democrats to some degree but not as much. It is only in part a logic-driven attachment. There is an almost religious fervor about it. For some of the more devout Jews and Christians in the party, it actually is literally a religious fervor.
There is also the factor that many Republicans, on the subconscious though not necessarily the conscious level, view Israel as a bastion of Judeo-Christian/white/European culture in a sea of what they see as nondescript savage brown Muslim people. Israel to them is like a modern version of the old crusader kingdoms, it is an outpost of Western civilization in the middle of a region that is dominated by a religion that Christian European civilization has been fighting with for over a thousand years.
Republicans as a group deeply, deeply love Israel and many of them are genuinely obsessed with Israel. It is not a deception or a subterfuge. I personally find it to be off-putting and weird but it is what it is. I am sure that Jews' often-noted wealth and influence as an ethnic group doesn't hurt, but that alone would not even come close to explaining the profound love that Republicans have for Israel.
Do you think any of the love for Israel in either party is driven by fear?
Fear that if they aren't seen to love Isreal sufficiently the kompromat will be deployed against them and they will be replaced with someone more amenable.
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You are right about the Republican Party and perhaps even the Republican base (depending on how you define that). It would have described me 10 years ago when I considered myself a republican.
I don’t know if that is true of Republican voters though. I vote Republican out of necessity but loathe the party. I suspect you comments do not ring true to a significant portion of the MAGA voters out there. My parents will never give up on loving Israel. 60 years of propaganda is extremely sticky. Myself, my peers. There is no mystical allegiance there. They’re shitty allies and a waste of money.
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I think there is also an element of capitalizing on their opponents weakness because the issue seems quite divisive on the left. Pushing an angle that highlights opposing partisans and isn't palatable to the middle is a generally successful strategy: look at how Democrats were appealing to moderate Republicans during the Trump campaigns.
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As discussed on an earlier thread, it feels like nationalism-by-proxy to me. People enjoy nationalism, it's fun, it's a team that you're part of. Since waving an American flag is declassee, they'll settle for a Ukrainian or Israeli flag.
These people have no actual compunctions about waving US flags, though. Thinking it’s déclassé is pretty firmly a blue tribe thing, and any right wingers extreme enough to dislike the American flag A) think Israel should pay cash for its weapons and B) have alternate flags to wave anyways(Texas for the nationalists, Gadsden and confederate for everyone else).
Republican support for Israel is based on a superstitious terror of opposing them, Islamophobia, and it triggering the libs.
Don't forget the massive financial incentives - support from AIPAC, more conflicts and forever wars to keep those MIC profit margins strong and wealthy jewish donors (just to be clear I'm talking about people like Sheldon Adelson and not The Learned Elders). There's also the stick of antisemitism accusation-based attack ads. There may or may not be superstition, "triggering" and purely emotional attachments playing a part, but I don't think you're giving an accurate impression if you leave out the massive financial and social incentives behind support for Israel.
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