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FtttG  Gheobhaidh mé bás ar an gcnoc seo.  7hr ago (docs.google.com)   Edited 5hr ago   492 thread views

The Motte infidelity survey

docs.google.com

In yesterday's small-scale questions thread, @cjet79 asks why the song "Mr. Brightside" by The Killers has had such staying power, famously staying in the UK singles charts decades after its initial release. Some explanations (including my own) point to its compositional elements; others focus on its lyrics and subject matter. @100ProofTollBooth argues that it's a very universal and relatable song, as "The experience of infidelity (to some degree) is common to many (most? idk) people."

I'm curious if this is really the case, so I decided to go Aella mode and created a simple survey to find out about people's experiences with infidelity. It consists of a few demographic questions (age, sex, sexual orientation, relationship style), then asks you if you've ever had an unfaithful partner, then asks you if you've ever been unfaithful to a partner.

Completely anonymous, and I've set it up so the form doesn't collect email addresses if you're logged in.

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It's a bit annoying that a person who has been in zero romances can't just skip all the pages past the first one.

(

Anecdotes on this topic:

  • I once received a consumer survey. It was a paper booklet with dozens of pages, including (probably literally) a dozen for the respondent to indicate how often he watched different television shows. After two or three pages of marking "did not watch" for every single show, I got tired of it and just scribbled a line through the checkboxes.

  • I once received an electronic survey from my university. It had (probably literally) a dozen different pages for the respondent to indicate which sports teams he paid attention to. After half a dozen pages of marking "do not pay attention" for every single team, I got tired of it and just closed the survey.

)

It's a bit annoying that a person who has been in zero romances can't just skip all the pages past the first one.

That's a valid point, I should have branched it accordingly. Let me see if I can change it without messing up the existing responses.

You're the human control group. I feel like we're lucky to have you.

My answers are not likely to be useful and my concerns about most of the questions probably don't generalize...

(eg, what does "without your knowledge or consent" mean in an open relationship, where I might well consent to broad ground rules without needing or wanting to know about every ERP partner? I put that down as "no" under the spirit of 'infidelity', but by the strict text? On the other hand, most social conservatives would see the actual open-relationships as infidelity with more steps... or hot, given the natal sex of the partners involved.)

That said, "What kinds of romantic relationships have you had?" could probably use a 'mix of above' answer before Other. I would be genuinely surprised if there were as many people who'd only had poly relationships as who have had a mix of poly and mono ones.

((I don't think jealousy is strictly universal, but its absence is closer to a form of damage than a strength; even in poly relationships, people like the underlying relationship claim that it represents. The extent cuckolding as a kink tends to be a marmite -- normal people either absolutely hate it or really like it -- suggests at least the fear of infidelity is extremely common.))

((I don't think jealousy is strictly universal, but its absence is closer to a form of damage than a strength; even in poly relationships, people like the underlying relationship claim that it represents. The extent cuckolding as a kink tends to be a marmite -- normal people either absolutely hate it or really like it -- suggests at least the fear of infidelity is extremely common.))

The great myth of polyamory (broadly defined) is that it is the lack of jealousy, rather than the negotiation of jealousy against other goods and utilities.

That said, "What kinds of romantic relationships have you had?" could probably use a 'mix of above' answer

I considered it, but I thought having like nine or ten possible answers ("mostly mono but sometimes poly", "mostly poly but sometimes mono" etc.) would be too granular for an introductory demographic question, especially as I'm fairly sure the majority of respondents are going to answer "monogamous". So far the latter prediction has proved correct.

(eg, what does "without your knowledge or consent" mean in an open relationship, where I might well consent to broad ground rules without needing or wanting to know about every ERP partner?

I thought of that, which is why I included this subtitle below every question:

If you were in a polyamorous or open relationship, you can include instances in which your romantic partner had penetrative sex with someone in specific contravention of your "ground rules" (e.g. no sleeping with close friends or family members). Please provide details under "Other".

If you're in an open relationship with ground rules like "don't have sex with my friends or family members", then I wouldn't say you've been cheated on unless your partner had sex with one of your friends or family members.

Ah. I'd read that more as modifying "consent", rather than modifying "consent or knowledge", but that's probably an artifact of how poly people treat it and may not be an issue for the overwhelming majority of respondents here.

I said this in the original Mr. Brightside thread, but I think the theme is universal, and the feeling of jealousy is universal, because infidelity as a feeling isn't limited to "legal" infidelity as outlined in the survey.

The song is not about a girlfriend cheating on you. It's about feeling ambivalent after leaving a girl behind and knowing she is probably moving on. You have feelings for her, and in another life maybe you would end up together, but for bigger reasons you are moving on and you know she is too, and while you know you have to move on you still don't like the thought of her hooking up with someone else. That's the joke in the name: he's "Mr. Brightside" because even though he's the one who chooses to change his life and become a rock star, he's still jealous of her, he can't help but look on the "bright side" of everything.

Lyrics for analysis

Comin' out of my cage and I've been doin' just fine, Gotta, gotta be down because I want it all

He's "coming out of his cage" because "he wants it all." He's moving on, moving up, changing his life. He has to because:

it's just the price I pay, Destiny is calling me

Losing the girl he loved is the cost of the changes in his life, which he has to make, "destiny" is calling him. He knows he wants to become a rock star, he has to become a rock star, the cost is worth it. But there is a cost, he can't have the girl and his destiny, and even if he still must pursue his dreams he still has feelings for the girl.

Everyone with romantic feelings feels jealousy, even if they've never formally been cheated on by someone who had formally promised not to do that, it's a natural human emotion. Girls who get married get jealous when guys they turned down marry someone hotter. Boys who break up with their girlfriend when they go off to college get jealous when she gets a new boyfriend. Guys who get married to women are still jealous of ex boyfriends she had twenty years ago, even if they never had sex, even if they only ever kissed. People are jealous when people they dumped move on. Men rage with jealousy when their ex finds someone better because they don't want her to have someone better; they rage with jealousy if she sleeps with every loser because it implies that he is also a loser.

Jealousy is pretty much irreducible as a feeling. Maybe when you achieve true monogamy, as opposed to serial monogamy, first kiss on the altar, it reduces somewhat. But I don't really see much active evidence of that in anecdata.

I gotta say, selfishly, I like this comment and the responses to it because it confirms my original hypothesis that "Mr. Brightside" is a choose-your-own-adventure about relationship ambiguities, general feels of "hurt" or "pain" etc. and that is why it's such a big song.

I don't think anyone in this thread is right because I also don't believe anyone in this thread is wrong. And that makes me happy. I guess I'm looking on the brightsid---GOD DAMN IT.

The song is not about a girlfriend cheating on you.

"Choking on your alibis" at least gestures pretty hard in that direction.

Also, the guy who wrote it said it was about when "I went to the Crown and Anchor [a Las Vegas pub] and my girlfriend was there with another guy."

I'd agree that part of the song's magic is that it's not only about a girlfriend cheating on you, though. Most of it works very well with any kind of jealousy, and with envy. IMHO it even works well with unrequited love; other than the "alibis" bit the lyrics could be about someone realizing he probably missed his chance with a girl he never had the guts to make a move on. His attempts to reassure himself that "it was only a kiss" then sound like a man trying to be rational (she hasn't definitely fallen for his rival) rather than one trying to rationalize (she just did a little infidelity where I could see it!).

Huh, interesting, guess I've been wrong all this time.

IMHO it even works well with unrequited love; other than the "alibis" bit the lyrics could be about someone realizing he probably missed his chance with a girl he never had the guts to make a move on.

I always took that as a girl saying so and so was "just a friend." Which works regardless.

Isn't it against the rules? When I suggested to do something like that, I was booed. But it's just me.

Btw, your sample is likely to be even more volunteer biased than Aella's

It's not against the rules.

Though I suppose I would have preferred it go in the SSQ thread.

Noted, if I ever do one of these surveys again.

I’ll say I didn’t have any real reason for that; hence the approval. But we’ve always been vaguely bemused when people want to do top-level posts. Odds are you’ll get better visibility this way, at least?

Isn't it against the rules?

If it is, mods feel free to delete.

Btw, your sample is likely to be even more volunteer biased than Aella's

I have no intention of using this as hard data, it's just a bit of fun.

I don't think it's hard data to universalize to gen-pop, but I'm curious because I'm curious about my own community.

If it is, mods feel free to delete.

Stand-alone submissions start removed by default. If anybody other than the submitter can see it, it's already been approved by the moderators.

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