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Notes -
IRAN WINS IRAN WAR
President Trump on Truth Social:
Iran foreign minister Araghchi confirms the agreement.
No regime change
Assurances of "safe" passage through the strait of Hormuz, but no assurance of "free" passage.
Absolutely no mention of uranium, enrichment, or nuclear weapons.
No mention of proxies.
Possible sanctions relief.
I feel like a lot of the takes flying around about the ceasefire are severely premature, both in places like this and in the regular news. Even on its face this is only a two week ceasefire for the purpose of negotiations, and as far as anyone knows the two sides are still very far apart diplomatically. In fact as of my typing this (it’s an insomniac kind of night) Iran has not actually ceased fire, missiles were impacting in Israel and the UAE many hours after the announcement (although this could just be down to their degraded command and control taking a long time to disseminate the orders, to be fair). And Israel is still fighting actively in Lebanon and saying that front isn’t part of the ceasefire agreement, while Pakistan (the broker) says it is.
Not to mention the Iranian-aligned regional militias, which they don’t have perfect control over; a rogue or misinformed group could hit an important US asset (think a lucky rocket or Shahed causing real damage to a US embassy or a Saudi refinery during the ceasefire period) and tank the whole thing without even really meaning to, although that is an edge case.
Just yesterday I was talking to my wife about the war, and I commented that the aftermath of the F-15 shootdown and pilot rescues probably leaves both sides feeling like they’re in a position of strength (Iran can still meaningfully threaten US aviation even under this much pressure; the US can operate deep inside Iran even without having a large-scale presence on the ground). The US has still been moving assets into the region and Iran has been continuing to fire on US bases, Israel, and the gulf Arab countries’ infrastructure. Both sides are feeling enough pain to want to negotiate, but neither seems to feel enough pressure to give anything up, and they certainly haven’t used up their options to escalate. All of the material signs in the past few days pointed to both sides settling in for a relatively protracted war, on the scale of months vs weeks, and I don’t really see that changing. It’s true that Trump could use this as an off-ramp, he is famously erratic and I’m sure the current situation was never the plan, but I’m not so sure he has a strong incentive to back down if Iran still isn’t making concessions, and Iran has no real need to concede anything as things stand.
I would be very surprised if both sides aren’t using the ceasefire as an opportunity to regroup and rearm in expectation of re-opened hostilities when the two weeks are up (or sooner if something else happens). That doesn’t mean negotiations are doomed to go nowhere, but I think people assuming the war is plainly over are engaging in wishful thinking. Not to mention that Israel was not involved in the talks and may decide to continue fighting with or without the US if they don’t like where the peace talks are headed (supposedly their threat of doing just that was a big part of how we got dog-walked into the war in the first place).
Again, the diplomatic positions of the two countries were very far apart right up until the announcement. Even Trump’s own statement only calls it a “basis to negotiate.” Right now the ceasefire is presented in such a way that both sides can at least try to spin it as a win, which is a fine way to begin peace talks, but that may not last when it’s time to hammer out lasting terms. It would be very easy for one or both sides to say the other is being intransigent or duplicitous and resume strikes after two weeks without having to take on the bad look of “violating the ceasefire” at all.
Color me skeptical, I guess is all I’m saying.
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There is no doubt this is a victory for Iran. No regime change, nuclear development will continue unabated and, most importantly, an aesthetic and propaganda victory for the Islamic Republic. US sanctions relief will be limited and the Iranians know it, although the wildcard there is whether the Europeans agree to some of it in a political deal.
In the long term, I think this is more mixed for Iran than many realize. The infrastructure destruction has been extensive. As oil prices come down again, a boom in oil revenue will be temporary. Iran is extraordinarily corrupt, and that includes the IRGC; those $2m shipping tolls are unlikely to fund necessary reconstruction and might not even fund weapons purchases after the relevant figures have taken their cut.
Much of Iran’s non-oil export industry, especially around chemical, medicine and some industrial manufacturing and export, has been destroyed. If oil returns to $65 a barrel it’s unclear how fast that can be rebuilt, especially if the IRGC, now firmly in charge, channels as much as possible toward rearming and the nuclear program. The civilian infrastructure destroyed is extensive, and public anger will mount further if much of it goes unfixed while the IRGC spends all it can on munitions and drones.
Eventually, as humiliating a defeat as this is for Trump (not that he cares, and not that he will pay for it) in objective terms, it might herald the end of the Islamic Republic, some years from now.
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I have a hard time believing that the USG will actually accept any of the stated points. Every one but the first seems like a non-starter, and taken together seems beyond disastrous for US interests (as well as unbelievably humiliating).
Isn’t Congress required to lift most sanctions against Iran? Most Democrats are still broadly anti-Iran and won’t want to give Trump a win, and many Republicans are hardliners, why would they vote for sanctions relief?
Because if they vote against it, they co-own the war, nullifying the gains from Trump's unpopular decision to start it. The Reps probably would vote against it either way.
That's assuming Trump won't just do it via an EO, and dare anyone to push back.
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This is a ludicrous assessment. Iran caved to Trump’s threats, and if they don’t give him what he wants the bombings will pick right back up in two weeks. Trump played a game of chicken, and Iran blinked first.
The best part about this ceasefire is how easy it is to spin in either direction. Everyone gets to feel like a winner!
"Iran has won, they've proven beyond a doubt that they hold the ultimate card, closing the straits. They made the USA come to the table and knock off the bombing."
"Iran has gotten cucked, we bombed them so hard they cracked and agreed to open the straits without us having to do anything but sit back and bomb them, so much for their leverage"
"Iran agreed to open the straits that were already open before this debacle" is a laughable spin attempt.
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I know which take I'm more partial to. The low IQ, deeply narcissistic chicken Trump and the US look more like the humbled party here, despite the blustering PR.
Iran have been established as a bigger player with control over the strait (and taxation paid in non-USD) and the world economy and they didn't even have to be the aggressor to achieve it.
Their nuclear ambitions are not ended.
The US tried to get the Kurds to attack the regime by giving them weapons and the Kurds remembered how unreliable US support is and said "thanks for the stuff, now fuck off".
China + Iran + Russia are strengthened.
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Would a ceasefire reset the presidential "police action" clock as far as amount of time forces are allowed to be deployed before Congress has to be asked?
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Feels like an L. But details will matter. I doubt the tolling goes into effect or released funds with the funds being more of a question mark.
Longer term I expect more pipeline capacity to bypass the straight. Not sure why that wasn’t done before.
Terms of the ceasefire would seem to be no toll for now. Iran can’t be doing ceasefire and blowing up tankers.
Why build expensive infrastructure that crosses multiple borders and results in you paying huge $/%s in "transit fees" when you can just ship it
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The ceasefire has to be a temporary face-saving measure so it doesn't look like another TACO. If today's ceasefire agreement stands, then it's a resounding victory for Iran. I expect bombings to resume in the coming weeks. 18th April, if I was a guessing man.
I'm not sure who benefits more from waiting. At face value, looks better for Iran. But we also know very little about the internal stability of the regime.
That's my first impression, at least. If this is roughly the shape of a status quo that holds, Iran pretty much won.
But at this point I know better than to assume that an agreement that Trump agreed to is worth very much. We will see if anything holds.
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I'm not sure Trump has the political capital to restart the war before the midterms unless Iran does something insane. Probably we get another flare-up in 2027 or 2028.
Political calculus had little to do with why Trump started this war. It will have little to do with whether he resumes it. MAGA is a personality cult. His allies get political capital from him, not vice-versa. His allies have no leverage.
I think it kind of did, though. He was already staring in the face of a wave election. If he could get Iran to capitulate quickly, he could prop up his numbers, and by extension the GOP's, by being the president who could solve the Iran nuclear issue once and for all by being the only president with the balls to attempt a military solution. Unfortunately, he believed his own bullshit and has such disdain for every president since Bush that he failed to consider that there were good reasons why nobody did it before. In the course of things, he pissed off the America First wing of the party and made fools of the hawks by insisting that he was achieving unprecedented success, akin to Germany in 1918. I figured he'd eventually be forced to yield, but not like this.
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If this is real, I wonder which party a two-week ceasefire benefits. I would think Iran, because it allows them to reorder and replenish the missile cities while determining new strategies re: launchers. But maybe it’s better for America, insofar as it staves off economic woes? I have no idea. I also wonder what influence the GCC is exerting, and how this war changes their opinion on US v Iran, if at all.
Israel, because they have a veto over the negotiation, without spending any credibility on the process.
I don't think the US is going to be consulting Israel for much of anything going forward. Trump just agreed to one of the more humiliating cease fires in American history, in part because he got completely snowed by Israel.
And if Israel bombs Iran, what happens?
It depends on how Iran responds. We have the leverage to convince them to stop. Whether Trump uses it is anyone's guess, but I have a hard time believing he'd want a repeat of the last month due to Israel's incontinence.
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I'd guess the U.S. benefits from actually having a chance to negotiate without the guy on the other side expecting to get a bomb through his chimney.
Iran gets the chance to show they can be reasoned with.
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I'm grateful that the terms Iran delivered were fair and not too onerous. Hopefully we can all move on quickly from this disaster.
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To the best of my knowledge, the terms are as follows:
1—Commitment to non-aggression
2—Continuation of Iran’s control over the Strait of Hormuz
3—Acceptance of uranium enrichment
4—Lifting of all primary sanctions
5—Lifting of all secondary sanctions
6—Termination of all UN Security Council resolutions
7—Termination of all Board of Governors resolutions
8—Payment of compensation to Iran
9—Withdrawal of U.S. combat forces from the region
10—Cessation of war on all fronts, including against Hezbollah in Lebanon
They do not say anything about collecting the transit fee (good global diplomacy), but seem to directly demand reparations from the aggressor parties. Not to mention all the other stuff, especially #9 and #3. (Sanctions/resolutions items and war items are I think reasonable/obvious given the situation). This is much more hardcore than what they've been asking for yesterday, in response to Kushner-Witkoff's undisclosed 15 points list, allegedly a capitulation-with-extra-steps ultimatum. And their old 10 points were already bold, including the bit about $2M per ship that they dropped in favor of… well, all this.
I have seen no evidence that Trump is unaware of the specific content of the list. He's reposting Iranian statement, which is devoid of details.
Needless to say, the new list amounts to strategic defeat for the US. I don't see how Trump can accept it in good faith (nevermind Israel; Israelis are seething or coping, and of course will in any case proceed with the usual lower-level conflict, just as Iran will, seeing its preference for maintaining its proxies). So it's another 2 weeks of market manipulation, threats and TACO, if not straight up back to war, I guess. This is surely far from over.
But the sheer fact that Trump was pushed to go from "tonight, a whole civilization will die" to using Iranian list instead of his son-in-law's is telling enough. Beyond this point, this won't be a clean win for the US no matter what.
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The Israeli lapdogs like Eve Barlow seem really upset about this, and Bibi/other Israeli officials also are reportedly against the ceasefire.
They can whine all they want about us Americans being privileged, but we control our own country for our own interests, not Israel's. Well, for now maybe.Can't say I'm expecting it to last long, the Kushner/Witkoff/Graham faction are definitely going to try to slap down any possible out available.
And what did they get from all this? Doesn't seem like much, except for increasing opposition to them among the only country that supports them. Don't bite the hand that feeds or they might stop feeding you eventually.
This comment is written with the assumption that the ceasefire will hold as is. It won't, and therefore my comment is irrelevant. Still, I poast.
Big L for Israel. Netanyahu spent 100 years of accumulated sympathy and didn't secure a permanent solution for any of Israel objectives. IRGC's survival means the survival of Hezbollah and Houthis. Hamas will be back soon enough. Each group now despises Israel with a newfound fervor. Good luck.
State side, antisemitism now has bipartisan support. A good number of normies around me are convinced that Israel is evil, that Netanyahu is the devil and that Palestinians are innocent victims. The narrative capture by is complete. IMO, overtime, Israel is likely to become a stronger military ally of UAE and Saudi Arabia than it is of the US. Their strategic goals are better aligned.
It won't be disastrous for Israel. In the spirit of 'nothing ever happens', the US will continue selling weapons to Israel, but at market price. Israel will continue existing with a real sense of threat from all directions and a vague anxiety that nuclear annihilation may be weeks away. Business as usual,. But, on the balance, Netanyahu will (and should) be remembered as a net-negative for the long-term security of Israel.
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Losing a poorly thought out war with Persia is traditional for empires in this stage. I'm not surprised. At least nobody's had molten silver poured down his throat this time.
In any case, Iran will factually take a while to rebuild. Their regime is kinda shaky with very limited next generation buy in(is the IRGC recruiting well enough to sustain itself?). Trump can easily spin this as some minor matter where the US accomplished its objectives.
Have you seen the price of silver these days?
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Damn this is such a banger, well done
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I doubt it. The FM doesn't control the IRGC or Iran. The problem with killing leaders is there is no one who can actually represent all of Iran or convince the generals to stop. If I had to guess, missiles have already been launched after that message was posted and enemy ships attempting to pass through the Straight will be destroyed.
The Supreme National Security Council and state media are announcing complete victory. They seem even more excited that the war is ending than the FM.
If Trump agreed to that, it is 4 of 4 to the outline I posted before, and also a complete strategic defeat for the USA. I hope it holds.
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This feels like an abusive relationship because my general feeling is (paraphrasing Glenn Greenwald a bit): I would happily donate to his victory parade if it genuinely means this is over. I don’t care if it’s wrong, let him feel like he won, just stop this nonsense.
But also: he needs to go. Impeachment or 25th amendment. Threatening to end a civilization after recklessly surrendering our sovereignty to a foreign, adversarial power (Israel) is not acceptable.
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Where is the actual 10 point proposal? Or is that being kept confidential while it's still under negotiation?
EDIt:
The "COMPLETE" part implies free. If it isn't what actually happens feel free to correct me.
Complete could also imply that ships from any country can pass through provided they pay the toll, unlike the current situation where only ships flagged or going to certain countries could pass through if they paid a toll.
The entirety of Western administrative government is based around the idea that "managing" "safe" "orderly" use of [x] empowers the government to keep certain people from using [x].
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Absolutely, either way I think OP is jumping to judgement prematurely until we know the specifics of the deal
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It's a 2-week ceasefire. Don't get ahead of yourself.
I doubt it will last 2 weeks even if it exists meaningfully now. The Israelis are incapable of abiding by ceasefire agreements (in fact, I'd bet they've already violated it) and I doubt the US will abide by it either making up some silly excuse. If I had to guess, whatever farce this unfortunately likely is will end completely after close of markets on Friday (but not before some insiders get rich on some market manipulation).
IMO, this was a big mistake by the Iranians. I hope to be wrong.
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Utterly hilarious to think that Iran is honestly going to dictate terms to the U.S. that leaves them in a stronger position than they were.
They get a chance to save some face, but I'd bet that we either get an agreement that publicly keeps Iranian leadership in place but has nonpublic terms that keep them neutered, or leaders start getting offed again.
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To be honest, I did not think that Trump would be able to scare the Iranians into opening the strait, and that they were more willing to sacrifice their population to induce a regime change in DC.
But yes, let's see if they let through ships at a similar scale than before the attacks first before praising the master dealmaker.
And an outcome where Iran gets to take fees for passage is strictly worse than what we had before the war, I think the technical term for such an outcome is 'defeat'.
For now I am happy to not find out what war crimes Trump and the US might be capable of.
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Can the self-described "plan trusters" weigh in on how they feel about this? Last time the discussion was about how we significantly depleted Iran's weapons stockpiles through some combination of causing them to bomb our enemies and us bombing Iranian infrastructure. Is Trump really describing a satisfying outcome?
I feel great about it. Iran chickened out and submitted to Trumps threats, and if they aren’t willing to give up the uranium before the two weeks are up, the USS Gerald Ford will be there to support the next round of bombing. This is a win for the US, and people painting it as an Iran win are nuts. If one guy is pounding someone’s face in the dirt while yelling “Say uncle or I’m going to break your arm”, and the guy in the dirt yelps “uncle!”, that’s not a victory for him. Quite the opposite.
If that's what it takes to stop this madness, then yes, this was a great victory, woo hoo, go you. Just please don't start any more of these deranged wars.
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I didn't have any particular goal in mind in the first place. "War with Iran" was not on my list of things I wanted to happen. I'm content to wait and see how it shakes out over the next 6-12 months.
Also, I caution everyone against jumping to any conclusions here in terms of what will actually happen. Trump says things to push directionally, not to score points with the teacher for being accurate.
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