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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   30414 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 21, 2022

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Anyone else suspect that Apple and Google are going to collude to kill Twitter by removing it from their app stores? Apple is already deleting their accounts on twitter. Seems like they are setting the stage. The Cathedral cannot tolerate a competitor to their stranglehold on social media it seems

They already have enough risk of antitrust litigation without such obvious collusion, so no.

It was only an apple exec who deleted his account, not the entire brand

Apple senior executive Phil Schiller has deactivated his Twitter account. While the exact reasons behind the decision are not known, but it is likely that the exit is a response to Elon Musk's Twitter takeover

They're 100% running with the "Musk allows child porn on Twitter" thing. I was right about cloudflare and kiwifarms, I'm almost certain about this one.

He's done. There'll be a rape accusation within six months, and he'll have his companies taken over by the entryists that are already setting up parallel power structures within them. That's what always happens to powerful individuals who go up against the blob.

There'll be a rape accusation within six months

You're a bit late to that prediction.

Happy to make a bet that Elon remains CEO of SpaceX and Tesla over the course of the next six months.

That's the exact opposite of what appears to be reality. One prominent account has been banging the drum on this for a long time and says only now is she finally getting some traction. See here: https://twitter.com/elizableu

That doesn't mean that's not how he'll be painted. It almost makes it more likely.

There’ll be a rape accusation within six months

did Elon Musk rape someone?

Did Kavanaugh?

not successfully at least

This is an inflammatory claim and should be backed up with some level of evidence 2 day ban.

So he's just like you?

  • -10

Not acceptable behavior on this forum 5 day ban

Hadn't thought of that interpretation. Looked like one user calling another user am "unsuccessful rapist". Which to me implies a desire/attempt to carry out rape, but falling short of it. We don't call getting caught for murder "attempted murder", we call trying and failing to kill someone attempted murder.

If any other mods are available on Thanksgiving they can feel free to override my decision if they think your interpretation is more likely.

Either way, it is better to write a longer post explaining things than trying to trick someone into a reductio interpretation.

More comments

how do you mean

Too obvious. Why didn't these rich liberal elites put a counteroffer to buy twitter when they had the chance? They had 6 months. Elon didn't even want the site. That would be easier than having to somehow orchestrate a plot to depose Musk. I don't think the left-wing elite cares that much.

Reminds me of Scott's almod's post. Coordination problems can be greater in one case than the other maybe?

Why would they bother? Either Musk goes along, and they win without spending any money. Or Musk doesn't go along, they use their monopsony power in advertising to drive Twitter and Musk into bankruptcy, and not only do they win Twitter but they take Tesla, Starlink, and SpaceX as well, all without spending any money of their own. They don't even need to orchestrate a rape accusation or anything like that.

I'd expect something more devious, from car crash to bizarrely self-admitted pedophilia.

Edit: that, though, is in any case vastly too crude. Musk can be made to implode, if needed, by more conventional means like Tesla stock crashing or whatever, those cartoonish punishments are improbable.

I am confused about these events.

Obviously this is coordinated, yet again, by the ADL, who have come out of the closet and started issuing mafia-like threats publicly. In fact they are doing this under their old StopHateForProfit «coalition of social justice» framework, which they first used when bringing Zuckerberg to heel two years ago. (From a quick search, it seems I'm the only guy who keeps bringing this up). (Related Forbes article). Zuckerberg, however, did not fight back remotely as openly.

That's... a bit too much, too soon, surely? They aren't yet feared enough, and their commitment to reposting 4chan/pol/ anti-Jewish memes when not intimidating the richest guy on the planet makes them look profoundly unserious. Or do their backchannel threats have more bite, as indicated by those hints from corporations? Because as it stands, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends with Greenblatt's ignominious removal and the organization being discredited.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, and this is The Thing shedding the skin of wokeness and used-up assets; maybe they'll be spent to inflate credibility of Twitter that nevertheless will, as Musk promised originally, to install a censorship council. There are many theoretical ways to run circles around the public here.

Then again, mamma mia, how crude.

...Or, looking at replies to Musk's posts, eg here – maybe Greenblatt et al are rationally assessing their dominance. Huh.

StopHateForProfit «coalition of social justice» framework, which they first used when bringing Zuckerberg to heel two years ago. (From a quick search, it seems I'm the only guy who keeps bringing this up).

My good sir, not only are you not the only one, but someone predicted it when Musk took over

The ADL does not have much money, but they have a lot of leverage with the media. The ADL & SPLC in the past has used its leverage to force Twitter to ban accounts . How many big advertisers will permanently defect if Musk does not cave to the pressure groups: I am optimistic most will not. Also Elon will find other ways to monetize the site, and layoffs will help control costs.

How many big advertisers will permanently defect if Musk does not cave to the pressure groups

All of them. The big advertisers all use a few advertising agencies, who are all run by the same activists who run the ADL and the SPLC.

why would a huge company like IBM or Apple need or care about an agency?

Apple uses TBWA, a division of Omnicom Group. IBM uses Oglivy and Mather.

why couldn't they just contact musk and buy ads? I'm sure they don't need a middleman. Maybe in the past they did need an intermediary but I don't see why this would be an impediment now.

there is a form to contact Twitter to buy ads

https://business.twitter.com/en/form/contact-us-mobile.html

Its a legitmate question, but its never borne out in the market. If you ignore the controversy long enough, you gain profit. Advertising on Tucker is super profitable, but many major companies do no because they caved early and pulled ads.

If ads work at all (dubious IMO) you should want Tucker ads if you are a company. There is no market reason that posits current trends other than the oppositional theory.

People said the same sort of thing when we were talking about cloudflare and kiwifarms, and I'm not really sure what to say to describe the pressure these groups impose other than gesture wildly at every Manipulating Procedural Outcomes essay.

Yes, it's possible for the CEO-king of Apple to say "fuck those guys, we're going solo", but this doesn't happen in practice even when men like the Cloudflare CEO commit to it in advance. That's because none of them have that much control over their own companies, and the procedures used to make internal decisions are all dominated by a party cadre that doesn't have the interests of the company in mind.

I can't imagine any set of orders Tim Cook could give his VPs that won't be met with replies of "yes sir, advertising and public relations will get right on studying the feasibility of that sir. They'll have an answer for you within four to six weeks."

This kind of thing happens again and again, and every time people are somehow surprised by it. Can you suggest any way I could talk about it that would make it click for people?

More comments

Obviously this is coordinated, yet again, by the ADL, who have come out of the closet and started issuing mafia-like threats publicly.

What part of the tweet you linked is a "mafia-like threat"? That tweet is the last of a series in which they claim they've documented a rise in anti-semitic posting. They're arguing that this is caused by the lack of moderation and that any platform that doesn't want this to happen has to engage in strict(er) moderation. They also explicitly called upon advertisers to pull from Twitter, that's about as blatant as you can get.

What part of the tweet you linked is a "mafia-like threat"?

Its entirety: «Whatever happens to @Twitter, new social platforms need to center trust and safety from the outset, or risk being subject to the same fate. In the meantime, **@elonmusk has put Twitter on deathwatch. It didn’t have to be this way.**»

I suppose there is some plausible deniability here, but when Twitter is «dying» because they coerce advertisers to leave it... It is a threat. Or rather, an admission of hostility.

in which they claim they've documented a rise in anti-semitic posting

Have they ever reported a decline in anti-semitic posting? Antisemitism works like Shepard tone. And there have been so many false reports from ADL and their affiliates about increases in... right-wing extremism, attacks on trans people, anti-semitism, whatever, I have little interest to check again.

In any case, the very premise is illegitimate. Even if expectations of reduced censorship under Musk lead to more unhinged posting, this does not justify their actions.

No, I dispute this interpretation entirely. When the ADL says that new platforms risk being subject to the same fate, it's pretty obvious they're referring to what they perceive as a rise in anti-semitic posts. The only way you can dispute this is if you ignore the chain of tweets that one is situated in.

Whatever problems you may have with the ADL and their actions, the example tweet you chose does a very poor job of making your point.

  • -15

what does deathwatch mean idgi

It means to be in a state where people are observing you dying

Maybe it's a death con 3 reference?

I was thinking of the (sub-)sub-faction from 40K.

Is that supposed to be read as "Stop 'Hate For Profit'", or "Stop Hate, For Profit"?

No, it’s “stop, [and] hate for profit”.

it seems

On one hand, you have the financial incentives to allow Twitter, its certain popularity amongst their affluent West-coast employees, the risk of lawsuits, the fact that Twitter is doing a lot of floundering on its own...

On the other, Apple deleted an account.

Wow, the Cathedral is hard at work. Twitter must be getting dangerously based to merit such dramatic action.

On one hand, you have the whole coal mine.

On the other, you have one dead canary.

(I'm not saying you're wrong but I think your reasoning is flawed.)

The Cathedral

So ADL are Christians now?

  • -19

What does The Cathedral have to do with Christianity?

I know about the source of the term. I'm just ridiculing its use here (in fact, I think it is misleading in general).

The ADL has been the organising force in pushing for an advertiser boycott here, which started the revenue collapse. This is simply the latest salvo in the war that they started.

You're right that it maybe should be called "The Synagogue" given the over-representation of certain ethnic actors in it (and the under-representation of Christians who are often nowadays its targets as mentioned) but Moldbug himself is Jewish so...

‘The Sanhedrin’

i feel like calling it The Synagogue would’ve been a little too on the nose lol

on the nose

You are appreciated.

It should occur to Apple that Elon plus a president DeSantis could enact horrible revenue on Apple if Apple too obviously joins The Cathedral.

Is Epic Games still fighting that lawsuit?

Considering Truth Social is available in the App Store I doubt Apple will stop carrying it due to political reasons, at least due to political reasons that aren't seriously beyond the pale of the normal liberal/conservative dynamic.

I’m long past expecting consistency from blue tribe. If their power is threatened they will lash out with considerable force

When someone puts forward an argument that "My enemies will surely do a thing based on unprincipled reasons" and someone points out that actually they didn't do that, and your response is "Well, I don't expect my enemies to be consistent," consider the possibility that you are just engaging in unprincipled boo-outgrouping, and definitely consider applying more rigor to the things you post here.

Probably won't happen. Elon can pay enough for lawyers and apple is vulnerable in Europe - seems like the app store is moving closer to being in the crosshair of Brussels. After the USB-C thing I don't think that they are willing to test how far the EU regulatory bodies are willing to go. Also twitter has nice functioning site (that is actually much better than the app)

No, but they'll make the threat to do so unless Elon implements draconian anti-"hate speech" standards and I bet Elon will crumble. Nothing ever gets better.

I think it's pretty unlikely.

Current estimate is 15% that it gets booted from the app stores inside of one year of Musk' takeover.

Haven't adjusted it either way yet.

No, I don't think Apple and Google are going to ban Twitter from their app stores. As long as it remains the forum of choice for journalists, politicians and public intellectuals, it's here to stay. And I think it says something that left-leaning journalists' and intellectuals' recent attempt to leave the platform for Mastadon seems to have been as unsuccessful as right-leaning figures' prior attempt to leave the platform for the likes of Gab, Parler and Truth Social.

The only way Apple and Google ban Twitter is if it devolves substantially, becoming filled with slurs and "hate speech," and I don't think Musk will let that happen.

My impression is that there was always a ton of unsavory shit on Twitter that managed to get past the filter. They just have to highlight it now.

OTOH, word on the street is Elon also cracked down on child porn, so he might have some ammo if they attack him this way.

The only way Apple and Google ban Twitter is if it devolves substantially, becoming filled with slurs and "hate speech," and I don't think Musk will let that happen.

A lot of press is already setting the narrative that this is indeed happening, that moderation is failing. I’m on twitter and I don’t see it at all, although “trending hashtags” have become much more right wing lately

That "although" was meant to imply that hate speech is a right wing thing?

I believe this accurately describes the beliefs of "the press," broadly speaking. "Trending hashtags" become more right wing; in response, the press declares that hate speech is taking over Twitter.

I just wish conservatives would start a serious boycott effort. I am 100% fine screening my purchases according to a blacklist for the rest of my life. I am 100% fine calling 10 businesses in my state to suggest the boycott and calling 5 corporations to complain, and I’m extremely lazy. I am ready to loudly and annoyingly protest outside certain businesses to discourage patrons. Etc etc. There are millions just waiting for the organizational infrastructure to fight back where it hurts.

The big problem/secret is that none of these boycott campaigns are effective on their own; they're just ammunition for subversives within the company for winning their takeover fights.

Sales don't actually have to drop, the company blucheka just need to wave some splcadllgbtbbq attack ads in the CEO's face and pull the "do what we want or you will lose subscriber!" trick.

Conservative boycotts don't have this essential feature. They are the cargo cult coconut radios of corporate activism.

Doomerism will kill any conservative boycott movement, but all you have to do is send a well-researched and cited dozen pages to top investors of company x, clearly spelling out that they are likely to lose z percent income from a boycott, and they will vote for a different ceo or direction.

It’s not rocket science. It’s remarkably easy. Investors in companies still, at the end of the day, do not want to lose a large amount of money.

You might want to take a look at this website: cancelthiscompany.com

I am 100% fine calling 10 businesses in my state to suggest the boycott and calling 5 corporations to complain, and I’m extremely lazy. I am ready to loudly and annoyingly protest outside certain businesses to discourage patrons.

You aren't meaningfully allowed to do these steps. If it's not illegal, it will soon be made so. At least, that's the pattern for the UK.

I've been wanting an app to facilitate this for years.

ShitList - would allow me to banish domains, companies / related entities from my search results. It would also scan barcodes to show me if the product was on my shitlist and why.

It would also annotate browser text to remind me that Zuckerberg is a lizard in a human suit or that James Mattis is former Theranos board member James Mattis.

You could share your shitlist with other users etc.

We could make the second one its own app and call it Fnorder (Fnordio?)

Implement it at the routing level and call it FnordVPN.

It wouldn't matter. A conservative boycott essentially would hurt only the boycotters. For many products it wouldn't be a case of buying one brand of something rather than another; rather, all the producers would be on the boycott list so you'd have to eschew the product category altogether. There would be no defections and new producers would be prevented from coming into being without the same problems. That's what it looks like when the co-ordination problem has been solved.

I do not think that is correct. Once you get the ball rolling corporations would have a legitimate fear of doing things that cause 20% of consumers to flee. What’s more, a boycott effort can act as a propaganda engine to cause non-members to flee (put up money to market, say, how Apple products are associated with poor child labor in Africa — emotional appeals to hurt consumer trust). Even if both Apple and Microsoft lean left, you simply boycott the most left one, or etc

Even if both Apple and Microsoft lean left, you simply boycott the most left one, or etc

I hate this whole thing. But from a strategic standpoint, I feel it's more effective to boycott one that's not the most extreme, with a bit of random even.

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