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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   1520 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for August 20, 2025

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

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Keeping this brief, to hopefully avoid straying into culture war territory:

There's a family my wife and I are acquainted with. This family has had a long history of behavior problems with their kids; the second-youngest male kid, approaching the tweens, has been having a lot of temper tantrums, screaming at and shaking his siblings, including his much younger sibling, and so on. It seems very likely that this is a behavioral problem, not a biologically-rooted issue, since he has these problems exclusively at home and not, say, at school. The parents are fairly Blue, and have been employing therapy/psychological professionals as part of their response to their kids' behavioral issues, so they did so once this behavior began manifesting.

A couple weeks ago, during a dinner catch-up, we learned that the counselor they were seeing for this particular kid's issues had prescribed him an antipsychotic which they had been administering to him on a regular basis.

I am not a psychologist, but the subject comes up a fair bit in the rationalist community. My understanding is that antipsychotics have extremely serious side effects, to the point that we as a society would never have considered approving them for conditions that were not as severely dangerous and debilitating as actual psychosis. My understanding is that the kid in question definately does not have any form of actual psychosis, only a fairly bad temper control problem. I expressed concern at the time, the parents looked into it more than they had previously, were horrified at what they found, and are now no longer administering the antipsychotics... which means the kid only got a regular dose for something like several months straight.

My question, to those with more knowledge and experience of the mental health profession and its tools and practices: is this as bad as it seems to me, and how much of an outlier should I consider this incident? Is this happening very surprising, or kinda what one would expect? My impression is that the counseler got their kid on an entirely-inappropriate and very dangerous medication with essentially zero concern for the kid's well-being, and having made no effort to inform the parents of the full array of risks; apparently they warned that it might cause sexual dysfunction, and then downplayed this concern because the kid hasn't really started puberty yet; the parents report that after looking into it more fully, one of the side effects to prolonged use is brain damage.

Practical question.

How to tackle an insecure superior who is worried about his job and thinks he can retain it by forcing out the people under him?

I have been in this situation for a while, recently things sort of came to a head and made me realize that the situation is intolerable and requires some drastic changes for the sake of my own mental health. Current job market is not great and I don't relish fighting algorithms and corporate hiring websites for access.

Bonus points for any solution that allows me to escape the consequences of using physical violence in a white-collar setting, but I doubt it.

High-risk high-reward strategy is to build up a clear list of cases where his behaviour lost the company money, either directly or in missed opportunities, and then take that list to the level above him once it gets big enough and explain how you or a different person could increase profits. I've seen a friend do that to great success, but you need to have a good reputation yourself plus a willing superior and a very delicate touch to make it work.

Classically, that's your skip-level's problem, right?

If you'd prefer to stay, you'd normally built a clear cut case for yourself as an example for the type of behavior you're unhappy with, and then request he deals with it. Depending on your relationship with the skip-level, you can directly try to be assigned to a different supervisor, get your supervisor assigned somewhere else (maybe there's a reason he's worried about his job), or at least try to have the behavior reigned in a bit. A team with lots of churn should worry the skip.

If your skip-level is bad or supportive of people being forced out, you might be out of luck and just paint a target on your back, though. So handle with care (or only do it after you've already got a few interviews lined up).

Well certainly avoid physical confrontation or violence of any kind, though perhaps that's the idea--you'd like to be violent but the repercussions would be unavoidable.

Hard to answer without much more specific descriptions, unless you're casting about for permission to use manipulation and subterfuge to undermine this person. I'd personally avoid that route as well, though such strategies tend to get results. I'd argue the cost is one's soul but I tend toward dramatic statements, especially when sitting in a hospital waiting room for hours, as I'm doing now. (I'm not sick.)

I've been thinking lately about boyhood and masculinity and emotion. There's this anti-trope in US society - by which I mean it's a trope that was formed to combat another trope. The trope is, "boys shouldn't cry", or sometimes "real men don't cry." I'm going to keep talking about boys because I'm specifically thinking of my teenage kid. But this trope is like the number one example in any article about toxic masculinity. This trope is seen as making boys repress their emotions and not allowing a healthy emotional life. The anti-trope is, allow boys to express their emotions. Encourage them to be sensitive and talk about their feelings and develop emotional intelligence.

But...what about anger? As a parent, I worry all the time about my kid. He's got some neurodivergent issues, we're seeking treatment for it. But one thing that's really started to bother me lately is his interactions with his school. I get a call at the snap of a finger, the minute he loses his temper or has an emotional meltdown or refuses to work on an assignment. "Ms. Prydain, please talk to your son." Every incident requires an incident report and a committee meeting and a notation in his permanent file.

Oh, he wasn't totally cooperative today? He had an understandable reaction to being disappointed or anxious about something? Oh no, have I failed as a parent? /s

And I mean, I get it, I do. They have a school to run and can't be spending all their time on the neediest kid. But I do worry at the message that he's getting. "It's not okay to be anxious." "It's not okay to get angry" - or at least not in a way that anyone can tell. Keep those feelings bottled up, young man, and only express them in socially acceptable ways. Otherwise, grit your teeth and get with the program.

What is a socially acceptable way to express anger? Is there such a thing when you're a child in school? For all the talk about how all emotions are healthy, I think it can't be denied that some things are okay to express, and some things will get the psychiatrist called in.

And yes, it's good to have emotional intelligence and it's good to learn some emotional regulation, I just think it's kind of weird that amid all the talk about how toxic masculinity discourages boys from expressing emotion, I'm not sure that doing it this way is much better. Is he actually learning healthy strategies to regulate his emotions, or is he just learning to mask and not express how he feels or that something bothers him?

This is already all over the place but I thought of this quote from a character on Marvelous Mrs. Maisel:

I handle things very calmly. I don’t get mad. I can’t get mad. When you’re really tall, you can’t get mad. You can’t pace around and wave your arms in the air and raise your voice, because people get scared. See? Look around. See? That’s what people look like when you’re really tall, and really mad. I look like an angry building! So I stay calm… all the goddamn time.

So as the mom of a sensitive, creative, intelligent, and conscientious teen boy, what am I missing here and how could I be doing better?

I agree with the comments below that older boys and men can rarely give unfiltered expressions of emotion, particularly anger and particularly to women, without their being misconstrued. Often swallowing one’s emotions is the right answer. The teen years are the right time to learn this, but if your son is on the autism spectrum he’s going to have trouble.

I would try to get his dad’s input if you can, even – perhaps particularly – given his dad’s struggles. You might also consider asking a male teacher for his perspective; if he has a male teacher who hasn’t called you I would consider him first.

Hi! I also enjoyed The Black Cauldron. :)

Welll my first reaction to your OP, before I even scrolled down to see "AuDHD," was, "Another day, another 'gifted kid is unhappy, must be autistic'" soo... And warning, treating for autism with a kid who isn't actually autistic just makes things worse / the child angrier.

But that said, individuals I've known who were both gifted and actually autistic have been helped by Good Intentions Are Not Good Enough by Winner and Crooke (for adults about the workplace), and The Asperkid's (Secret) Book of Social Rules by Jennifer Cook. Winner and Crooke also wrote Socially Curious and Curiously Social: A Social Thinking Guidebook for Bright Teens and Young Adults, which I haven't seen but hey, same author and for teens.

In particular, Winner and Crooke have a thing about "People have an idea of what counts as a big deal and what doesn't, and if you react super strongly to what they think should be a small deal, they'll see you as unpredictable/crazy and treat you badly."

Which is true. But oversimplified. And doesn't account for like actual differences and justifiable stronger reactions. After all, different people are different and how is it fair that one group gets to just dictate what is and isn't a big deal? (As many of your responses pointed out.) (I'd add that giftedness can be the sole cause of "over"reactions. Or can just be a partial cause with autism and/or ADHD as the other part(s).)

Enter idiosyncrasy credits / "weirdness points".

Idiosyncrasy credits are increased (earned) each time an individual conforms to a group's expectations, and decreased (spent) each time an individual deviates from a group's expectations. Edwin Hollander originally defined idiosyncrasy credit as "an accumulation of positively disposed impressions residing in the perceptions of relevant others; it is… the degree to which an individual may deviate from the common expectancies of the group".

--once established as a generally trustworthy person / good friend, then you can stand up for your interpretation of the situation where it is so a big deal. (Being innately different, even solely due to giftedness, means you just are disadvantaged in this. It forces you to use up more idiosyncrasy credits on basic needs. Unfair but true fact of life.)

Based on your description, he's stuck in the opposite situation: He's already established as "the one who always overreacts." Uphill battle there; from a solely social perspective would be best to switch schools. The new dx will, socially, operate as a "well he's defective so he gets a pass for his constant overreactions." Might or might not make the situation tolerable for him ("You see, the autism means that X thing that doesn't bother most people really bothers him, so be kind to the defective and don't do it"), but that's never gonna be as healthy a situation as a new school where he started off on the right foot (and got established as "the overall good guy who cares weirdly a lot about X, we like him so we'll respect that").

See also Stephanie Tolan's A Time to Fly Free (about a preteen but still). And Grace Llewellyn's The Teenage Liberation Handbook.

(Ran this by one of the diagnosed AuDHD+gifted people I know and he cosigned it.)

My 16 year old is in boxing 3x a week and the gym with me 2x.

He needs to get his ass kicked and accept his place in society in a safe and very manly environment.

Aren't you worried about receiving too many hits to the head at that age?

No.

Yes if he was doing actual boxing boxing.

They do cardio, technique, footwork, hand work, and very, very light sparring.

Even then, I would recommend a kid take a few to the head in a boxing gym rather than not.

It forms important understandings as a kid imo.

What is a socially acceptable way to express anger? Is there such a thing when you're a child in school?

In my time, it was listening to angry music (rap or metal, with the two being pretty mutually exclusive; the metal-listeners would generally turn out to be more successful for reasons that I had a whole teenage pop psychology theory for that these margins are too small to contain), playing first-person shooters, or getting into internet flamewars (my palliative of choice). I don't know about acceptable ways that can be used right there, in the moment, in a social situation, that go beyond giving the target a death glare and maybe clenching a fist in your pocket; bottling anything that can't be dissipated with just that up for later is a life skill that just needs to be practiced.

metal-listeners would generally turn out to be more successful for reasons that I had a whole teenage pop psychology theory for that these margins are too small to contain

Don't tease us like that. I, for one, would love to have my musical tastes flattered when you have the time.

I don't know about acceptable ways that can be used right there, in the moment, in a social situation, that go beyond giving the target a death glare and maybe clenching a fist in your pocket

With enough verbal intelligence, you can also get away with quite some veiled ridicule or malicious compliance, while maintaining enough plausible deniability that shouldn't get your parents called. We had a class clown that got very entertaining when angry... I'm sure it made him feel better (especially in public with people laughing), although raising your kids to be obnoxious little shits might not be exactly advisable.

As a guy, my experience is also that nobody actually wants men to show their real emotions, least of all publicly. Male anger or horniness is scary. Crying or anxiety is pathetic.

The good news is, this includes the men themselves. At least from my PoV, the toxic masculinity talking point is to a large degree the inversion of reality; there is a grain of truth, but there is also toxic femininity that tries to get men to open up more, expecting them to show emotions that accommodate the feminine worldview, in a female-friendly way, and then punishes them for having wrong feelings the wrong way, aka their actual male feelings.

And I mean, I get it, I do. They have a school to run and can't be spending all their time on the neediest kid. But I do worry at the message that he's getting. "It's not okay to be anxious." "It's not okay to get angry" - or at least not in a way that anyone can tell. Keep those feelings bottled up, young man, and only express them in socially acceptable ways. Otherwise, grit your teeth and get with the program.

So, yes, unironically this. It's not necessarily about simply ignoring or bottling up your feelings - it's that managing your own emotions is your own business, or at most to a minor degree that of your closest confidants who are giving you helpful pointers. If strangers or acquaintances can read your feeling in a way you did not intend, you screwed up. Some amount of screwing up is perfectly normal. And contrariwise, deliberately showing even anger is occasionally the correct course of action for the purpose of whatever your goals are. But losing control of your emotions as a man and openly & fully showing them to anyone but your closest friends will always be unpleasant for everyone involved (and often even then).

On the topic of managing emotions, anger is easy; Sports or competitive games generally do perfectly fine, depending on his inclinations. Anxiety is more difficult, and usually includes thinking hard about what you are really anxious about, and either convincing yourself that it is irrational or finding mitigation strategies, and then ideally exposing yourself to the thing you're anxious about, so that your strategy is proven correct (in reasonable limits, of course).

Is it generally okay to reply to sort of old posts?

I think that emotions are more appreciated than what is commonly claimed, but that it matters a lot which emotions are shown, and when. Any show of emotions which envokes greed or reliance on others tend to reduce ones value (which is basically because you let your problems become other peoples problems).

We can learn the "real" preferences of people through fiction. Most will tell you that women don't like masculine traits, but if you read a novel for women, you will find that some of the "attractive men" in these stories have both masculine and feminine traits. In fiction, you will also see a lot of strong emotion, often, even from the lead male characters that women thirst for. What's important is how and when the emotion is shown. One description many women seem to like is "hard on the outside, soft on the inside". It's a skill. Or if done unintentionally, a result of the right experiences in life and the right upbringing.

It would be nice if there was more research on these things, but I haven't found any which approaches the topic in the same way that I am

I notice this even in famous literature for men. Surely, say, the Iliad is a work that is in large part about men expressing emotion? Achilles sulks, he rages, he cries, and he generally bares his heart. If I think about cinema, men showing their emotions seem like some of the most beloved moments: Vito Corleone mourning his son, for instance. If you watch, I don't know, Breaking Bad, it seems to me that there are lots of emotions on display; Jesse in particular is very open with his feelings. The most iconic moments from that show - Walt's despairing laughter at his money being stolen, Walt crashing to the ground in devastated grief, Jesse's angry-crying "he can't keep getting away with it!", etc., they're often explosions of emotion. If we get more lowbrow, men love, say, Star Wars or The Lord of the Rings, and the last I checked their male casts are quite emotive.

It seems more complex to me than just the rule that men shouldn't display emotion. I think the rule is that male emotional displays must be appropriate. A man who reacts emotionally to a small stimulus shows himself over-sensitive; a man who does not react emotionally to a large stimulus shows himself inhuman.

When compared to women, I think there are maybe three things going on.

Firstly, the kinds of emotions appropriate for men and women are different. Men are meant to react to some experiences that women do not, and vice versa. For instance, it would be appropriate for men to cheer, cry with joy, or hug each other if their sports team won the grand final, whereas stereotypically women might not react to that. Emotional reactions to competitive activities in general seem to code more masculine. By contrast, something like nurturing or tenderness codes more feminine and therefore is appropriate for women in a wider range of contexts. So each gender may have differently-shaped spaces of acceptable emotional expression.

Secondly, the modes of emotional expression appropriate for men and women are different. Take the sports example again - it's okay for men to cheer, dump containers of gatorade on each other, whatever, whereas that would look a bit more odd from women. If a woman is very happy, though, she has her own script for how to express that. Likewise for things like sadness or anger - a woman might go and cry in the bathroom, and a man might head out back and kick a rock, and those both seem like expressions of emotion, even though one is feminine and one is masculine. If you are only looking for feminine forms of emotional expression, you'll see that women do them and men don't, but that doesn't mean men aren't expressing themselves. They're just not expressing themselves in that way.

Thirdly, the line of appropriateness is in a different place. Above I talked about small and large stimuli. What's the line between them? Plausibly the threshold for acceptable emotional expression for a woman is lower than it is for a man; this would also mean women tend to express themselves more frequently. But once the threshold is exceeded, men can express themselves as well, and if they don't, something is wrong with them.

For instance, it would be appropriate for men to cheer, cry with joy, or hug each other if their sports team won the grand final, whereas stereotypically women might not react to that.

They might not do so, but is there really any social convention dictating that it's somehow unbecoming of them as women to do so?

As a guy, my experience is also that nobody actually wants men to show their real emotions, least of all publicly. Male anger or horniness is scary. Crying or anxiety is pathetic.

Generally true, but I note pop music with lyrics by men isn't a complete disaster, surprisingly. Gangster rap has high appeal even though it's men expressing anger and horniness, for example.

I wouldn't call most of it positive or anything but it's a fun time.

Two things I might offer.

  1. a question. You mention he is "neurodivergent." That could mean many things, and you do not have to tell me any of them. But do you suspect this is what's the root of the issue, and that his anger is an artifact of this? That he is acting out anger in inappropriate ways due to an overreaction to stimuli that a less neurodivergent person would react to differently ? If so, that's a tougher issue.

  2. Dad is a model of manhood, for better or worse. Many men I know consciously try to be UNlike their fathers (in my mind they fail mostly). But I for example try to be a lot like my dad in terms of temperament. I can remember what would set him off and when. He never really lost his temper--where I have regularly lost mine. I have shown anger in front of my sons in ways he never did, but I have his model to sort of steer me back to how I would like to be. But if 1) is the issue my 2) might again be less relevant. If your son is overreacting to benign stimuli that's going to take more work. I will say that you as the mother are not the model, so there's that. You're more the model of how he will view women.

Heavy exercise is great, sports are great ways to exhaust the body and vent. I agree with whoever already said that. I have two teenage boys.

Finally, I can't comment on your school system in any way but the most vague generalizations, but school has been in some ways always stifling of boys, to varying degrees. Your write-up isn't specific enough for me to know if that's what's going on. I'm pulled back to the word neurodivergent however and wonder if there's more going on.

AuDHD. Interesting you mention the father thing because he's exactly like his dad, which is what scares me sometimes. We're divorced because he couldn't reign in his emotions. They both get extremely frustrated when there's a task they're having trouble with.

Society doesn't seem to have the right model for it. "Oh, he's an abusive husband because he yells and throws things, he's using his emotions to control you." I don't think it was that calculated (and for the record, he never laid a hand on me). I would describe his outbursts as panic attacks - just really accelerated breathing and heart rate and this kind of spiral of escalation that he seemed unable to break out of.

Anyway with the teen, we're trying to figure out the right mix of medication and talk therapy approaches. His school has a 504 with him and we're working on an IEP. Overall they've really tried to work with us. I just have some discomfort around the idea that we're pathologizing what to him is a normal emotional reaction, and making him feel somehow broken. But it does need to be addressed because living with his dad was volatile and unstable. I hope Junior can find a better way to manage it all.

Society doesn't seem to have the right model for it. "Oh, he's an abusive husband because he yells and throws things, he's using his emotions to control you." I don't think it was that calculated….

I 110% respect your insight here. Modern society is quick to lump unlike things together and label them all abuse.

… (and for the record, he never laid a hand on me).

Given the circumstances, I would encourage you to explicitly communicate your respect for this and to thank him if you haven’t already. I bet it will mean more to him than you think.

Thank you for responding. You bring up a good point--when I mentioned that dad is the model, I did not mention or consider (though it is relevant) the idea of genetics. In some ways I see my wife in both our sons--my oldest seems to have no concept of how to be on time, for example, which is a trait my wife (though she is Japanese, thus against stereotype) has, while I am nearly always very early for everything.

So in your case Junior is a chip off the old angry block?

Again, the vagueness of your description makes the advice here very reddit-y (i.e. useless) because no one here knows what's going on. Reading the tea leaves and pattern-matching to our own experience can only go so far. It's true, as others have said, boys need outlets, boys need male role models (see my earlier post alluding to my What Would Dad Do? tendencies) and if your son doesn't have any that's something you should consider--though much of modern mainstream society tells us lesbian couples and villages of women are perfectly capable of raising non-toxic males who will wash the dishes, never raise their voices, and help mom replace the carburetor and caulk the bathroom tiles when needed (I'm showing my age referencing carburetors), I would bet large amounts of money that this is a myth. A boy needs some sort of male figure in his life and on a regular basis, preferably way more than one. (This could be uncles, or even trustworthy neighbors, coaches, youth pastors, older brothers, etc.) Usually life takes care of this on its own due to family juxtaposition, or--at least when I was in school--the way boys are filtered into groups of boys doing sports and girls into girls doing sports. I have no idea what happens now. (Do girls play in shirts and skins games?)

I am not suggesting to throw him back in with a man you consider volatile and unstable (again, I'm relying on your adjectives, no one here can truly read your situation. You could be either an over-reactive shrew or a knowing Cassandra, you've a small comment count so it's hard to know.) But it's something @Iconochasm has already suggested: male role models.

Is this going to be an insta-fix? Probably not. Good start, though. I'd agree that even the very best-case scenario with medication and a lot of caring female souls around him would be that you create a docile male who stays home a lot, has para-social relationships with Youtubers he never meets, and will double check with you if he's wearing the right shirt, at age twenty. Which, hey, I think a lot of women want that. I'd argue that that's not an ideal outcome.

Is he interested in any sports? I'm not saying throw him in football if he's 130 pounds, but even someone at 130 lbs can run track or play tennis or pickleball or join the swim team. You'll see a difference if he's regularly exerting himself physically. Again, though, mom needling him "Get up and do sports!" is a recipe for a backdraft explosion. Ideally he would have dudes who are friends joining sports teams. Parenting can be hard.

I had to look up AuDHD. From what I am reading, this is not actually considered a clinical diagnosis? It was referred to on one website as an "unofficial but popular" term. This bears consideration, as unofficial but popular smells of making-shit-up. (Though I am not a medical doctor or psychiatrist.)

AuDHD

Made up shit likely because of poor understanding of the underlying substrate and map/territory issues.

Something like about 75% of patients with autism meet the criteria for at least one other mental illness and of the pot of mental illnesses something like about 75% meet the criteria for ADHD.

So it's not everyone but pretty close enough.

That said, I state "meet the criteria for" instead of "has the disease" which usually isn't very important but is instructive in this case since it is very possible that the underlying cause of the symptoms is not the "problem with the brain's hardware and software that causes the majority of ADHD symptoms in individuals with no other mental illness" and is instead a sequence of behavioral deficits better explained as caused by the same underlying issues as the autism which does a lot for explaining the prognosis* and high degree of comorbidity and at the same time just means that the person is going to get the same treatment as everyone else.

Psychiatric formulation is mostly a kludge used to jam something that resembles the medical model in place for purposes of billing and ease of communication.

Needless to say from my rant you aren't likely to catch much clinical conversation using AuDHD unless its more word bad less word good type situations.

However most of the wild type implementations of AuDHD are likely to pattern match to people identifying with their mental illness and trash tier social media engagement about health.

Sorry recently triggered by a soccer mom.

*I'd have to do a lit review to be sure but I'd hazard that spontaneous remission rates in pure ADHD patients are higher than in the ADHD with comorbid AUD population however this would be likely be hard to research.

Hey, appreciate it. Mostly I was just feeling low and felt like venting about how sucky life can be sometimes. I agree with all the advice (sports, role models) but it's so hard to put into practice. I can't magic male role models out of nowhere. He does see his dad a couple times a week, for what that's worth. The sports thing has sort of been a perennial struggle because the boy really digs in and gets resistant as soon as I suggest something "organized". When he was younger he would run and play on the playground and climb everything in sight, but he freaked out when I wanted him to do an actual parkour class. Wrestling or boxing or track might be something if I can find something age appropriate.

I was being flippant about the AuDHD - he has been formally diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. The ASD is more recent so I'm still navigating what it means and how it should change my parenting approach.

I can't magic male role models out of nowhere

Is there some variety of tutor/coach you could hire that suits any (special?) interests of his? This is about as close as it gets to magic, if it's an option financially. College students work pretty cheap. Math, piano, programming, personal trainer?

I resisted anything suggested by my parents. It had to be organic, something I arrived at on my own. Perhaps a bit of mentalizing him without being direct. And it wasn't just because of parental pushing, or that it was organized. (In fact I liked organization.) It was a paralyzing fear of being around a bunch of people I didn't know. Again, who knows if that's key. But there are again ways of easing him into social interaction.

AuDHD is a combination of Autism and ADHD.

That's what my brief look-up said, and it also said what I mentioned, e.g. that this is not a clinical term.

Seems a little extreme to jump straight to talk therapy and medication. Have you tried heavy metal and a personal trainer?

But yes, you have correctly identified an issue. His emotions are an inconvenience to virtually every woman on the earth (which includes most of his teachers, administrators, therapists, and IEP-professionals). The call for him to express himself is somewhere between solipsistic ignorance and a cruel, Mean Girls lie.

This is unfair. There is no systematic solution. The closest you can get is to stop asking other women to fix him (be wary of feminine men here, too). My own teen son is very well-adjusted, and I still have frequent issues where his grandmother freaks out over his being "moody". Whereas I can tell that she's just utterly incapable of reading his moods and either working around them or overriding them. He needs male role models, male peers, and acceptably pro-social outlets. Sports would cover all three, but if he's not that kid, then at least try a gym membership with a trainer and a Dream Theater concert.

He is a teen and he is having tantrums and meltdowns in school? That doesn't sound like a case of a school overreacting to normal male behaviour.

Whether something like this is "normal to him" doesn't really matter. This is unacceptable behaviour and he will have a really hard time if he doesn't learn to manage this.

Oh, he wasn't totally cooperative today? He had an understandable reaction to being disappointed or anxious about something?

We're divorced because he couldn't reign in his emotions.

Many such cases. My advice stands, he must learn to stuff his emotions.

What is he angry about? Is there an alternative to his current setting that's feasible, and where he wouldn't be angry? Sometimes there isn't, but also sometimes there is. Anger is often meant to spur people into action, to change their circumstances. Teenage boys are often physically stronger than their teachers, and really can't express anger towards them. It will certainly get him fired quickly from many jobs. But, also, the extremely restrictive prison like environment of many schools, where they can't even leave campus for lunch, isn't inevitable.

I went to community college instead of high school -- technically I was "duel enrolled" as a homeschool student, but I wasn't really studying anything in particular other than the college classes. I was angry or shocked a couple of times, so I left, sat under a tree grumping for a while, complained to my parents, and then came back a couple of days later for the next class. As long as I did my work, nobody much cared.

I also taught at an alternative high school in a small town. The teens often just didn't come to class, probably two days a week. If they were angry that day, I wouldn't want them to come to class, they were better off going for a hike in the woods or something.

I'd say the best thing to do is get him into a physical activity where he can release the anger. Martial arts, some sort of weightlifting, even boxing or chopping wood or just a punching bag or something. Some physical release where he can productively channel the anger.

Man, I donno. Girl Dad to Boy Mom, I don't envy raising boys in this environment. All the same, if he's gonna grow into a man that doesn't want to end up a professional pariah or in jail, he's is going to have to learn to stuff his anger into the seeds of a cardiac event. Just a man's lot in life. Best advice I ever got is "When you have to eat shit, take big bites".

Hello Motte Friends!

A while ago I posted about a plan to get a girlfriend. Life threw up a lot of curveballs, so I ended up holding on the plan to push online dating. I didn't completely slack though. Here's the stuff I said I'd do, versus what actually happened.

  • Lifting: Have been doing Stronglifts 5x5 mostly consistently since my last post. My friend is my gym buddy, and we keep each other consistent. I squatted 210lbs this week. I've always been skinny (currently 5'11 155lbs), so even these beginner gains are making me look better. It feels nice to be more physically capable.
  • More fashionable clothes: Got those and a better haircut. I'm getting compliments on my appearance.
  • Skincare: Couldn't stick with it. Seemed to improve my complexion the day of, but not over the medium term. A friend suggested new products, I'll make another attempt with those soon.
  • Professional photos: Didn't happen, temporary money troubles
  • Contacts: Didn't happen, money troubles
  • Read Models: @crntwx suggested this. I read about a third of the book so far, have been trying to change my thought process and self perception in line with it's suggestions. It's a real crusade 😂, real "draw the rest of the owl", but worth doing.
  • Sleep: Honestly pretty bad in terms of hours and schedule, probably the number one thing hurting my charisma.
  • General habits: Spending WAAAY too much time on the internet doomscrolling, number two drag on my charm.

Advice Request:

  • I get a big improvement in mental state after lifting, but it's after work 3 times a week. I used to improve my mental state by running, but my legs can't handle that and squats at the same time. What could I do on off days/daily?

I get a big improvement in mental state after lifting, but it's after work 3 times a week. I used to improve my mental state by running, but my legs can't handle that and squats at the same time. What could I do on off days/daily?

No need to run. A walk at active pace for an hour or two is more than enough

Also, I don't recommend treating dating like a job interview, which you seem to be doing by having an extensive lists of prerequisites you're forcing yourself to get done before even trying. You're definitely on the right path in improving yourself, you definitely should keep going, not for the sake of dating but for yourself. Change the mindset from "I'm lifting because I want a girlfriend" to "I'm lifting because I want to be healthy" or because "lift heavy rock make bad thought in my ape head go away". Reason why I say all this is because with online dating, you're bound to fail many times. You'll be meeting complete strangers, failure rate is high. It will discourage you from improving yourself because your framing will be that you did all this work yet you still haven't achieved your goal. People with bad eyesight and poor sleep still date, don't wait on fixing this.

Spending WAAAY too much time on the internet doomscrolling

don't beat yourself up about this too much. Can actually turn this into a positive for yourself. Everyone under 30 is doomscrolling for hours too, girls you will meet will be brainrotted to the core just as much as you (unless you're doomscrolling autistic sites which is highly likely since we're on the motte, you should hide that stuff on first few dates lol).

Lastly, once you actually start going on dates here's my final advice. Like I said earlier, failure rate is very high and you should expect most dates to not work out, but still make the best of them. And you do that by going in with minimal expectations. My favorite thing to do is doing some kind of activity that I was going to do anyway. New exhibition at the museum? Get a quick bite then go see the exhibition. That way I kill two birds with one stone, have a date and visit the museum. Even if the date goes bad, at least I visited the exhibition I wanted to see anyway. Any other mindset would have me stressing because 'OMG I'm about to go out with potentially my future wife I gotta put my best foot down and be on my best behavior', but that just puts way too much unnecessary pressure, so I just treat it like a hangout with a friend. Don't take this advice too far, you still gotta flirt and show interest, otherwise the girl will not get the spark or feel like you're not into her but don't worry about this too much because dealing with that will come with experience

How do you feel about your personality, currently? Do you make friends easily, or have many satisfying relationships with other people?

I'm not implying that you lack those things, I'm just curious about your self-perception of them.

I get a big improvement in mental state after lifting, but it's after work 3 times a week. I used to improve my mental state by running, but my legs can't handle that and squats at the same time. What could I do on off days/daily?

You could do 30 minute walks and stretching to aid 'active recovery'. You won't get the same buzz as from running, but there will be some mental benefits.

I get a big improvement in mental state after lifting, but it's after work 3 times a week. I used to improve my mental state by running, but my legs can't handle that and squats at the same time. What could I do on off days/daily?

Have you tried some sort of meditation? Metta especially can help with mental state, loving kindness meditation.

Also if you're in the rave scene it would probably be popular there.

Hello Motte Friends!

I've been getting more involved in my local rave scene as part of my effort to get a girlfriend. This post is part an anthropology post like @self_made_human's, part progress report, and part discussing strategy

What the scene is like

  • The motto is Peace, Love, Unity, Respect (PLUR). A general attitude of being accepting, vulnerable, and spreading positive vibes prevails. Drug use is common, but not nearly as universal as outsiders think. It only takes a minority of people to completely change a groups vibe (IMO for the better). Contact high is real.
  • The accepting attitude means you get a wide range of people and subcultures. You'll often see PhDs and tradesmen chatting. It's extremely internet influenced. I tell people the main way to tell if an event is a rave or just a club night is the presence of animal ears. God bless neko girls.
  • The music and dancing is nominally the main reason everyone's there, but half the action is floating around and chatting with people off the dance floor. Most people are way more open to conversation and connection than normal.
  • There are different tiers of events (duh). The biggest ones have the most single girls, but they're so loud and crowded it's hard to talk to them. The smallest ones are mostly attended by the people that go to every event, almost all the girls there are taken. There's a real goldilocks zone in between the two.
  • Lots of events are invite only or minimally advertised. The people that go to every event are often part of the crew for these. These are often ideal places to meet people. Almost every event has an after party. Getting invited usually requires knowing someone on the crew.

What I did, how it turned out

  • I went to every event I could and brought a polaroid camera. I went around, walking up to random people and offering to take people's pictures. The acceptance rate was around 95%.
  • This almost always lead to a follow up conversation and me becoming friendly with their circle for the rest of the night. I would be gifts or invites to other events.
  • I tried using this as an in to talk to the beautiful girls in elaborate costumes I saw at every event. They all ended up asking for photos with their boyfriends, which I obliged. Rule of thumb I learned was the more complex the outfit, the more likely they're taken.
  • In terms of romantic results, I made out with one girl after taking her picture. That didn't go anywhere after I learned she was poly. I used polaroid as an icebreaker on behalf of my friends, resulting in one hook up and one date. Girls who I'm not interested in sometimes flirt with me.
  • I made friendly with one particular crew to the point I'm invited to every event they're involved with + after parties. In that social circle way more people know me and my name than the other way around. Is this the social proof thing people talk about?
  • I got cool with their organizer, who unironically knows hundreds of people. I asked him to introduce me to potential partners and he agreed. Hasn't happened yet but he says he's looking.

Advice/Difficulties

  • I don't know how to dance with other people, especially how to dance up to a girl to get her attention. Any advice here? I often find myself dancing faster than everyone else.
  • At these events I'm talking to a lot of people, but it stays surface level, light hearted. I don't really know how to flirt. I've been told I'm attractive when the conversation gets passionate or philosophical, but I don't know how to guide a conversation there.

I don't know how to dance

The neat thing about the rave scene is you can do flow arts instead. Usually, you can find a few people that just enjoy watching and complimenting you even if you are beginner. It also gives you a reason to talk to the other flow artists to ask how you can get better.

brought a polaroid camera

Another thing that might work well in the rave scene is to make friendship bracelets (referred to as kandi in the rave scene). Put words/jokes on them and then you can give them to people who look like they would vibe with the bracelet.

I don't really know how to flirt

This is where being in a slightly altered state can help. It helps your intuition take over even though you can’t logically think it through. I like to use Phenibut (but only up to once a week and never mix it with other CNS depressants). Micro (or a very light dose) of psychedelics might work if it doesn’t make you anxious.

I don't really know how to flirt

If you cannot play the "game", just be very direct while being open to rejection. Direct compliments on her, asking for her number, offer to buy a drink, offer to dance etc. You don't have to come up with a unique interesting conversation to approach each stranger. Since you seem to be doing the numbers, you will quickly learn what works often and what doesn't. Also, get a wingman (preferably female). Also get somewhat buzzed/high but not too much. Also start smoking or vaping.

I don't know how to dance with other people

Maybe where you are this is different, but I have never met anyone while dancing in a rave. It is too loud and chaotic. There are usually some chilling areas for smoking or resting. That is where I have had 99% of every random conversation I have ever had in such events.

P.S. "girl who is interested in you but you aren't interested in her" has probably friends around! She will probably introduce you to them if you don't totally ignore her. They might be prettier.

You’re like the most social person in the world - Grats!!

The motto is Peace, Love, Unity, Respect (PLUR)

At best this is an aspiration. It's like BDSM heads talk about safe sane and consensual. Look at what you actually see. In a rave it's synthetic drugs and electronic drums, in BDSM it's sex and violence. Too cynical? Take raves and remove the drugs and drums but leave the PLUR. Does the result still look like raves?

Don't get me wrong, I like raves. I'm just tired of people using trite slogans to morally launder their deviancy and hedonism.

I don't know how to dance with other people, especially how to dance up to a girl to get her attention. Any advice here? I often find myself dancing faster than everyone else.

Raves are not partner dances. Raves can be a place for being expressive, playful and a bit childish, so you can try something like miming. I once saw a guy miming out a full shopping trip to a supermarket. You could try something interactive like bouncing an imaginary basketball and passing it to the people who catch on, then build up the interaction from there - celebrate scoring a half court three pointer, draw them up on a foul/travelling, send them to time out, then if it's a cute girl you could joke about their team's uniform and rib them for not having showered after the match. Just make stuff up. Drugs help. Even if it's not for the women it's a fun change from trying to be all serious. But if you're looking to dance with a partner you should go to partner dances.

I don't know how to dance with other people, especially how to dance up to a girl to get her attention. Any advice here? I often find myself dancing faster than everyone else.

Take partner dance lessons! Just do a 101, probably some type of swing. I prefer West Coast but it's a bit more complex than east coast. You could also try salsa but imo it's much harder than swing especially to start.

I'd say at an event like that deeper conversations aren't that appropriate, especially for folks you just met. Ideally you get to know them and then have a more intimate hangout/date/whatever and talk more deeply there.

Also, good on you for doing this stuff.

My quest to the 200 54# Kettlebell Snatch goal is taking some detours. I seem to have plateaued at around 160 where my exhaustion hits a point where the fatigue overwhelmed my form and injuries happen. Nothing major, torn calluses, back gets a little tweaked, etc. I think I'm going to start trying to do 2-5 sets of 100, since knocking out 100 in a row has gotten fairly easy. Did two sets today as a try out and it seems promising. Might add a 3rd set of 100 next week. Fingers crossed. I'm hoping after stacking enough of those sets, once day I can just drop the rest period and go for 200 straight.

Anyone got any tips for alleviating psycho-spiritual damage?

Been in a pre-existing sour state for a while, but having just watched a guy walking around a local art museum taking pictures of Brueghel the Younger paintings and loudly asking ChatGPT to explain to him over speakerphone what the artworks were and how he should feel about them seems to have taken a chunk out of my soul that I didn’t realize I still had.

Well normally I'd suggest a gin and tonic at this time of year, but the other comments are probably going to give a peace of mind with a more robust shelf life.

Meditation, prayer, et cetera. The standard religious and spiritual practices.

Having kids is pretty awesome and generally brightens my day, no matter how retarded things get out in the real world.

I concur with this. I sing my eldest to sleep every night, and it is consistently one of the happiest experiences I have each day. It's gonna hurt when they get too old for it.

(Un)fortunately I am a pretty standard-issue Rootless Cosmopolitan, so I guess I’ll have to make do with my cat, for now!

Tilt your head back and laugh at how perfectly retarded everything is.

Well, it’s a solution!

Any other tall guys who lift here who have had success finding work or casual shirts? I'm getting tired of my two best options being "get everything tailored" or "mostly fits in the chest/shoulders/arms, but big enough in the waist for 2-3 of me."

State and Liberty used to be my go-to for short sleeves (their long sleeve shirts had sleeves that were way too short), but their fit and quality control has collapsed. Where the shirts used to fit well everywhere, they are now massive in the waist, and I've had Ls that were too big and XLs that were too small. Other companies I've tried seem to view "athletic fit" as "guy who lifts once a month and has a beer gut." "Slim fit" fits in the waist and nowhere else.

Obviously, when I was a gym-goer instead of a home gym guy, I should've been asking all the super-jacked guys where they were getting shirts.

Hey buddy. What you want to do is find a shirt that fits you perfectly, take the measurements of that shirt, then go on to eBay and find shirts with identical measurements. I've found this to be the most successful way to purchase button-downs, jackets, and sweaters. It doesn't always work, but I've found really well-fitting button-down work shirts and it has helped me narrow in on the brands that fit me best.

Tailoring is not the end of the world. If you can get one shirt tailored to the fit you want, you can take down the measurements and send them to Luxire or a similar overseas place for made-to-measure shirts around the same price point as State and Liberty (depending on fabric quality and sales, but I can promise you even their cheapest fabric will be better-looking than some kind of "stretch performance" thing).

Many major metro areas have big and tall stores, depending on yours they may have something that fits your needs or know how to help you look.

Depending on your social network you can sometimes find athletes who have the hookup or a decent plan that doesn't involve tailoring everything. Trickier to do but you'd be surprised how much of a market exists for "finding a home an NBA player can actually shower in" and how that trickles down.

I just gave up and wear scrubs but that probably doesn't help you.

Have had similar problems. Charles Tyrwitt shirts fit me perfectly

Only commiseration here. The worst is when the sleeves are so slim, I can't even roll them up. That just feels insulting.

No. The struggle never ends to find shirts that I can actually move my shoulders in, but which aren't also flapping in the breeze around my waist. I've also found it very difficult to find nice pants that fit my quads, but aren't cinched up like a sack cloth. There was a brand or two, but their QC went to shit.

They're just chinos, not dress pants (sometimes available in wool iirc), but Epaulet's Wilhelm cut is designed for serious lifters. Even their regular cuts are extremely flattering and have a lot of thigh/seat space.

I've also found it very difficult to find nice pants that fit my quads, but aren't cinched up like a sack cloth.

When I bought some new suits a year ago, I had to buy the pants with the biggest possible waist (56 or something) and have them taken in a ridiculous amount, and they still barely fit my thighs.

There are some jeans brands out there that are okay for simultaneously fitting waist/ass/thighs, but those are jeans, not nice pants.

This hasn't been a problem for me (6'6) for the last decade or so at least, there are so many brands with long t-shirts. What I do is go to some online retailer and look specifically for extralong shirts and order a bunch. With the generous return policies this easy and without any real cost. For dress shirts I just have them tailored and always have, there has never been a brand that fit me well. Furthermore, if you buy in bulk they're more or less the same price as decent quality standard sizes. There is not really a reason to not get them tailored.

While I'm big, strong and have naturally wide shoulders, I've never done steroids so perhaps we're talking about different things?

What I do is go to some online retailer and look specifically for extralong shirts and order a bunch.

The length isn't the issue. It's how big around the shirts are in the waist. Anything that fits the chest/shoulders has a waist big enough for putting away a 12pack a day.

For dress shirts I just have them tailored and always have, there has never been a brand that fit me well.

Yeah, that's what I figured the answer would be.

Anything that fits the chest/shoulders has a waist big enough for putting away a 12pack a day.

There are v-shaped slim fits. They have not been hard for me to find.

I guess It could be an issue if you're specifically looking for a form fitted but loose shirt.

Foot is hurting after running too much. Serves me right for trying to cram in the miles when I know (and have known since I was 17) that I do much better when I'm biking and swimming and holding my mileage around 60 a week. I'm just too big (which is probably a crazy statement on this forum) to run 80 miles a week without getting hurt.

I went for a run on Sunday to break in my new runners. I was hoping to do 5k, but I'd barely made it 400 metres when I tripped coming off the footpath and fell over. In the past whenever I've tripped while on a run, I've just gotten back up and kept going, but this time felt different. After getting to my feet and hobbling across the road, for a moment I actually thought I was going to burst into tears from the pain.

I managed to limp home and laid down on the couch for a bit. By the evening my foot and ankle had swelled up like a balloon and I was limping heavily. I tried to keep it elevated when I went to bed, and didn't get much sleep. On Monday morning I was genuinely considered going to the hospital, as I wasn't sure if it was a sprain or a fracture. Fortunately I had a compression sleeve to put on it, and by Monday afternoon the pain had mostly subsided and I could put weight on it. Three days later the swelling is starting to go down, it barely hurts at all and I'm walking normally - but large parts of my foot are covered in dark purple bruises. It's sort of fascinating to look at, actually. I had no idea a sprain could look so dramatic.

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